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Answer to Ivan 2

by Fredrik
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Fredrik
#1
Oct19-04, 11:00 AM
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Ivan, it's going to be very hard to answer you if you keep closing every thread as soon as you have made a post in it. I thought about just sending you a private message, but I think that a discussion that was started in a public forum should be finished in a public forum.

Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking
I asked for proof of Randi's million dollars and this creates a controversy?
No, you didn't just ask for proof. You asked, received an answer, and ignored it. That's not the same thing.

Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking
I have looked for the proof and didn't find any.
Where did you look? Under a rock? I would look at the James Randi educational foundation. This page tells you how you can get in touch with them.

Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking
If and when you have a link that shows undeniable proof of the money then please post it.
A link!? To a web page?! What exactly should be on that page? A picture of James Randi and a pile of cash? What exactly would you accept as "undeniable proof"?

If you write to the JREF, they will send you a copy of the latest monthly account statement from the brokerage house that holds the negotiable bonds. If that's not good enough for you, then what is?

Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking
Until then, I am treating this as any other crackpot claim made without proof.
Wow. You're actually saying that it's a "crackpot claim" to say that James Randi isn't a fraud.

Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking
I think our James Randi fans should be held to the same standards as they hold everyone else.
I agree. However, it's very dishonest of you to pretend that that's what you're doing here.
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Overdose
#2
Oct19-04, 12:07 PM
P: 186
I hope the old thread re-opens ive collected alot of data id still like
to post up..
As for James Randi, the issue of the money is an important one, but what i personally feel is that there are so many more issues surrounding the man that i find very questionable.
Ive read his requirements for studies, and as i remember Randi can turn you away for what ever reason he chooses, and is not even obliged to give an explaination. Couple that with the fact that hes set himself up as the 'debunker of all things paranormal' who will loose not only his reputation but a large chunk of money if one of his experiments proves the existance of esp.... and i really dont see any reason to treat him as a credible level-headed scientist.
Whats to stop him simply turning someone away if he thinks they might have a good chance of winning that money? absolutely nothing, and he has plenty of motivation to do just that.
Ivan Seeking
#3
Oct19-04, 02:48 PM
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I almost deleted this thread but instead I will state my position as clearly as I can.

First of all, I don't trust James Randi. This is a just an impression based on my own correspondence with him. So in spite of the apparently sacred waters on which I tread, I am being honest. Next, the burden of proof lies with the claimant. If you wish to defend Randi's challenge then the burden of proof lies with you to retrieve and post either a current copy of the account as an attachment, or a link that provides the same. It is not my job to prove the claims of others.

If or when you have such a link or attachment, please post it. Otherwise I will issue a formal warning if another thread like this is started. I have worked for thousands of hours to support my own position on various subjects. You can spend ten minutes defending yours; if that's really all it takes.

As for crackpot claims: I consider absolute claims made without proof [such as I can read your mind, or I know a guy who has a million dollars] as crackpot; no matter the subject.

Ivan Seeking
#4
Oct19-04, 03:19 PM
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Answer to Ivan 2

I should add this; self employment and my entrepreneurial pursuits have left me a little...okay extremely cynical about anything that involves money. I would actually be pleased to know that Randi is really the altruist so many seem to believe him to be. Frankly, I don't believe it.

I am also amazed that not one "skeptic" that cited Randi's challenge here has ever bothered to check and see that the money really exists. This is why I refer to Randi's true believers. Most of his fans seem to believe everything he claims, without proof. Talk about irony!


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