What is the Origin of Frame Dragging and Gravity Waves in GR?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concepts of frame dragging and gravity waves within the framework of general relativity (GR). Participants explore the origins of these ideas, their theoretical underpinnings, and potential observational implications, including comparisons to electromagnetism.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants compare frame dragging to the magnetic field produced by moving charges, suggesting that gravity waves are analogous to electromagnetic radiation.
  • It is noted that Einstein's equations of general relativity allow for wavelike solutions, similar to Maxwell's equations for electromagnetism, although direct detection of gravity waves has not yet occurred.
  • Experiments to detect frame dragging often involve spinning bodies, with a participant explaining that a spinning charge exhibits both electric and magnetic fields, unlike a non-spinning charge.
  • Historical references are made to the early predictions of frame dragging and gravity waves, citing significant contributions from Einstein and others shortly after the introduction of general relativity.
  • Frame dragging is described as being less noticeable in smaller bodies like Earth but potentially significant in black holes, particularly in the ergosphere of a Kerr black hole.
  • Questions are raised regarding the physical effects of frame dragging and gravity waves, specifically whether frame dragging creates an additional gravitational field due to the Earth's spin.
  • One participant emphasizes the dominance of Newtonian gravitational effects over frame dragging effects, particularly in polar orbits where Newtonian effects are said to vanish.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the nature and implications of frame dragging and gravity waves, with no consensus reached on the specifics of their physical effects or the mechanisms involved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about gravitational effects and the dependence on definitions of terms like "frame dragging" and "gravity waves." The discussion also highlights unresolved mathematical steps in understanding these phenomena.

Phymath
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What is Frame Draggin, and Gravity Waves where did the idea of them come from in GR?
 
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If you compare gravity to electromagnetism, frame-dragging is somewhat similar to the magnetic field due to moving charges (currents), and gravity waves are somewhat similar to electromagnetic radiation.

Maxwell's equations predict the wavelike solution for electromagnetism which gives rise to radio, light, and the entire electromagnetic spectrum - Einstein's equations of general relativity have similar wavelike solutions, so similar gravity waves should exist. However, AFAIK nobody has detected them directly yet.

Most of the experiments to detect gravitomagnetism / frame dragging involve spinning bodies. While this is not the only way to detect the phenomenon, it's one of the more clear-cut. To use the electromagnetic analogy, a spinning charge has both an electric and a magnetic field, while a non-spinning charge has only an electric field. Thus one way to detect magnetism would be to look for a difference in the behavior of a spinning charge (which would be affected by both electric and magnetic forces) and a non-spinning charge (which would only be affected by electric forces).


Wikipedia "Timeline of Gravitational physics & relativity" lists some dates and people as far as when the effects were first predicted theoretically:

Wikipedia timeline

# 1915 - Albert Einstein completes his theory of general relativity. The new theory perfectly matches Mercury's strange motions that baffled Urbain Le Verrier.
# 1916 - Albert Einstein shows that the field equations of general relativity admit wavelike solutions
# 1918 - J. Lense and Hans Thirring find the gravitomagnetic precession of gyroscopes in the equations of general relativity

So both effects were predicted very quickly after Einstein's theory was published.
 
Frame dragging (aka Lens-Thirring effect) is not very noticeable in a body such Earth, but it must be quite important in a black hole. In concrete, in a Kerr black hole, there exists frame dragging in a zone called ergosphere, situated between the outer event horizon and the stationary limit. The ergosphere is not a fatal zone, you can scape of the black hole if you are in it, but you can't avoid to be dragged by frame dragging while staying in it
 
so what physical effects might you observe? from both grav waves and dragging, like is the draggin creatine an extra gravity field because say the Earth is spinning, thus its gravity field is stronger? or is it some other field?
 
The Earth's gravitational field induces orbital precession via standard Newtonian gravity. The exception is polar orbits, at which point the Newtonian effects vanish. It's critical to suppress the Newtonian effects because they are huge compared to frame dragging effects.
 

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