image
Physics Forums Logo
image
image
* Register * Upgrade Blogs Library Staff Rules Mark Forums Read
image
image   image
image

Go Back   Physics Forums > Physics > Special & General Relativity


Reply

image Frame Draggin And Grav Waves Share It Thread Tools Search this Thread image
Old Oct22-04, 03:47 PM                  #1
Phymath

Phymath is Offline:
Posts: 180
Frame Draggin And Grav Waves

What is Frame Draggin, and Gravity Waves where did the idea of them come from in GR?
  Reply With Quote
Old Oct22-04, 04:59 PM                  #2
pervect

pervect is Offline:
Posts: 5,387
Recognitions:
Science Advisor Science Advisor
Retired Staff Retired Staff
If you compare gravity to electromagnetism, frame-dragging is somewhat similar to the magnetic field due to moving charges (currents), and gravity waves are somewhat similar to electromagnetic radiation.

Maxwell's equations predict the wavelike solution for electromagnetism which gives rise to radio, light, and the entire electromagnetic spectrum - Einstein's equations of general relativity have similar wavelike solutions, so similar gravity waves should exist. However, AFAIK nobody has detected them directly yet.

Most of the experiments to detect gravitomagnetism / frame dragging involve spinning bodies. While this is not the only way to detect the phenomenon, it's one of the more clear-cut. To use the electromagnetic analogy, a spinning charge has both an electric and a magnetic field, while a non-spinning charge has only an electric field. Thus one way to detect magnetism would be to look for a difference in the behavior of a spinning charge (which would be affected by both electric and magnetic forces) and a non-spinning charge (which would only be affected by electric forces).


Wikipedia "Timeline of Gravitational physics & relativity" lists some dates and people as far as when the effects were first predicted theoretically:

Wikipedia timeline

# 1915 - Albert Einstein completes his theory of general relativity. The new theory perfectly matches Mercury's strange motions that baffled Urbain Le Verrier.
# 1916 - Albert Einstein shows that the field equations of general relativity admit wavelike solutions
# 1918 - J. Lense and Hans Thirring find the gravitomagnetic precession of gyroscopes in the equations of general relativity

So both effects were predicted very quickly after Einstein's theory was published.
  Reply With Quote
Old Oct22-04, 07:52 PM                  #3
meteor

meteor is Offline:
Posts: 913
frame dragging (aka Lens-Thirring effect) is not very noticeable in a body such Earth, but it must be quite important in a black hole. In concrete, in a Kerr black hole, there exists frame dragging in a zone called ergosphere, situated between the outer event horizon and the stationary limit. The ergosphere is not a fatal zone, you can scape of the black hole if you are in it, but you can't avoid to be dragged by frame dragging while staying in it
  Reply With Quote
Old Oct24-04, 02:56 PM                  #4
Phymath

Phymath is Offline:
Posts: 180
so what physical effects might you observe? from both grav waves and dragging, like is the draggin creatine an extra gravity field because say the earth is spinning, thus its gravity field is stronger? or is it some other field?
  Reply With Quote
Old Oct24-04, 05:01 PM                  #5
Chronos

Chronos is Offline:
Posts: 5,609
Recognitions:
Science Advisor Science Advisor
The Earth's gravitational field induces orbital precession via standard Newtonian gravity. The exception is polar orbits, at which point the Newtonian effects vanish. It's critical to suppress the Newtonian effects because they are huge compared to frame dragging effects.
  Reply With Quote
image image
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads for: Frame Draggin And Grav Waves
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lab frame versus center of momentum frame jdstokes High Energy, Nuclear, Particle Physics 6 Jun7-08 08:33 AM
Plz check over my work (Univ. Grav. Law,Max Compr.,Standing waves,Ideal Gas Law iirevolverii Introductory Physics 5 Apr29-08 10:15 AM
Help with Satellites and Grav. newtonistheman Introductory Physics 6 May9-07 09:03 PM
A frame dragging experiment in an accelerated reference frame Redhat Special & General Relativity 5 Aug2-06 02:10 PM

Powered by vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. © 2009 Physics Forums
Sciam | physorgPhysorg.com Science News Partner
image
image   image