BECs vs He-4 Atoms: What's the Difference?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the differences between Bose-Einstein Condensates (BECs) and helium-4 (He-4) atoms, particularly focusing on the implications of cooling He-4 atoms to the ground state and the nature of BECs. Participants explore concepts related to quantum states, coherence, and the physical size of BECs compared to individual atoms.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that cooling He-4 atoms leads them to fall into the ground state, making them bosons, and question why BECs are not the size of atoms.
  • Others challenge the assumption that BECs are not the size of atoms, suggesting that experiments indicate otherwise, with specific reference to the molar volume of liquid He-4 at absolute zero.
  • One participant mentions that the quantum zero-point motion contributes to the expansion of the molar volume of He-4, referencing a thermal physics book.
  • A later reply clarifies that BECs do not become one giant atom but rather that all particles become coherent and can be described by a single wavefunction, emphasizing that they do not necessarily occupy the same physical location.
  • There is a concern raised about the terminology used, particularly the phrase "super-atom," which may lead to misconceptions about the nature of BECs.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of BECs and their size relative to atoms. There is no consensus on the implications of the "super-atom" concept or the physical characteristics of BECs.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the definitions of BECs and the implications of quantum coherence remain unresolved. The discussion includes references to experimental observations and theoretical interpretations that may not be universally accepted.

misogynisticfeminist
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From what I know, the cooling of He-4 atoms causes them to fall into the ground state, making them Bosons. But there's something which confuses me, from what I read, these atoms actually coalesce into one "super-atom". And in quantum theory, it is entirely possible for many atoms to be in one spot at the same time (right?). But why is it that BECs are not the size of atoms?

Or is my understanding of BECs flawed around here?
 
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But why is it that BECs are not the size of atoms?

What makes you think BECs are not the size of atoms?
 
lol, is that so? then won't it be like too miniscule to be handled or something?
 
James R said:
What makes you think BECs are not the size of atoms?

Experiments have shown that they are not. Actually the molar volume of liquid He4 at absolute zero is 3.1 times larger than can be calculated from interatomic forces for a static lattice.

About the original question. I looked it up in my thermal physics book where it says "We can say that the quantum zero-point moyion is responsible for the expansion of the molar volume". But if some-one knows the details?!
 
misogynisticfeminist said:
From what I know, the cooling of He-4 atoms causes them to fall into the ground state, making them Bosons. But there's something which confuses me, from what I read, these atoms actually coalesce into one "super-atom". And in quantum theory, it is entirely possible for many atoms to be in one spot at the same time (right?). But why is it that BECs are not the size of atoms?

Or is my understanding of BECs flawed around here?

Y'know, next time you read things like this, please make sure you WRITE down the exact source so that the rest of us can double check to make sure you actually read it correctly?

The misconception here comes from the "super-atom" phrase and the meaning of a boson statistics. When a collection of particles undergoes a BE condensation, it does NOT mean that they become one giant atom. It does however mean that ALL of the particles are now coherent with each other and can be described by a single wavefunction. The coherence caused them to be "entangled" to each other and thus, physically and mathematically not separable. Thus, they are often thought of as one single entity, NOT a single atom!

And no, they all don't have to cramp into the same location in space. This is another misconception. What they can do is be in the SAME quantum state.

Zz.
 

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