What Are the Three Types of Drives That Determine Change Direction?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the types of drives that determine the direction of changes, specifically categorizing them into "dead end," "automatic," and "free will" drives. Participants explore the implications of these categories in relation to choice, change, and quantum mechanics, with a focus on theoretical and conceptual aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose three types of drives: "dead end" (impossible) drive, "automatic" (self-driven) drive, and "free will" drive, with distinctions based on the number of choices available.
  • One participant argues that the "free will" drive is the only one that facilitates change, suggesting that there are always multiple choices in every situation.
  • Another participant uses the example of a pen to illustrate that certain actions, like dropping a pen, do not involve choice, as the pen can only fall to the ground.
  • A participant referencing quantum mechanics suggests that while macroscopic entities may appear to have limited choices, nature at a fundamental level has infinite choices.
  • There is a challenge regarding the distinction between "dead end" and "automatic" drives, with one participant questioning whether having only one choice constitutes a true choice.
  • Another participant introduces a metaphorical concept of "the Great Machine," implying a deterministic view of existence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of choice and the implications of the proposed drives. There is no consensus on the definitions or distinctions between the types of drives, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on interpretations of quantum mechanics, which may not be universally accepted or understood. The discussion also reflects varying philosophical perspectives on free will and determinism.

ddr
there are three types of drives that determinate the direction of changes:
-"dead end" (impossible) drive (drive without choice)
-"automatic" (self driven) drive (drive with only one choice)
-"free will" drive (drive with more than one choice)
 
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Freewill drive is the only drive i see making changes. Isn't there always more then one choice in every situation?
 
Originally posted by Owl
Freewill drive is the only drive i see making changes. Isn't there always more then one choice in every situation?
when you drop a pen from a height it won't write a poem cause it has no such choice. in fact it can only hit the ground after a short free fall.but also if you leave the pen on the desk it cannot went away but it has to wait until next time - the time when you get it...

or so...
 
ddr: yes it can. As far as QM is concerned, it can. You can only make a probabilistic statement, and then your observation collapses the waveforms into a single instance.
 
Aren't we all forgetting the Great Machine? We're just a bigass VW bus headed toward a cliff.
 
Originally posted by ddr

-"dead end" (impossible) drive (drive without choice)
-"automatic" (self driven) drive (drive with only one choice)

i can't see the difference between these two idea, if you have only one choice, you have no choice.
 
Actualy, like FZ partially mentioned, according to QM
nature always has infinite choices according to its
fundumental laws. As for "us", "we" seem to have none,
because "us" is meaningless.

Live long and prosper.
 

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