Finally, sweet release, only 2 days away (hopefully).

[wasteofo2]

Well, BSing about politics with random people on the internet/real life since last fall has been fun, but it's about to come to a climax and FINALLY be over. I'm going to be so grateful when all this nonsense finally ends, all I can hope for is that it at least ends on Nov 2.

I don't know what'd be a bigger strain on me, a decisive Bush win on Nov. 2, or no clear winner until December...

 

[kat]

I'm expecting it to be very close, prolonged and volatile. Not looking forward to the next few weeks at all.

 

[wasteofo2]

Aww, c'mon kat, aren't you Republicans supposed to be optimistic?

The Ohio Secretary of state tells me that everything will be 100% fine, why can't you be more like him? Having to face reality before it even happens is such a drag...

I suspect this shirt will be selling a lot in the upcoming days http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=340

 

[check]

Well, The Washington Redskins just lost against Green Bay. According to legend that means that Bush is going to lose.

http://www.snopes.com/sports/football/election.asp

 

[kat]

Aww, c'mon kat, aren't you Republicans supposed to be optimistic?

The Ohio Secretary of state tells me that everything will be 100% fine, why can't you be more like him? Having to face reality before it even happens is such a drag...

I'm not a republican and I think you've called me that before and I've corrected you before...so maybe it's time you figured it out and stopped repeating it. In fact I didn't vote for Bush 4 years ago. 2 years ago I voted for a Democratic governor for Maine...which many of us are regretting but not all of it is his fault. I also voted for the Independent Governor King before him. Actually, now that I think of it...I've never voted for a republican Governor..


I haven't been listening to the Ohio Sec. of State so I don't know what he's saying but..I expect a lot of litigation...more division...and possibly riots if Bush clearly wins. I'm glad I don't live in the city. In fact if I lived in one of the highly contested states I'd be downright terrified if Bush has a clear victory.
This is the most disgusting election I've ever viewed and I'm beginning to view the Dems as the more divisive of the two sides. Breaking into Rep. Headquarters, shooting into Rep. Headquarters, breaking the arm of a rep. volunteer at one of the Repub headquarters...this is an outrage. I don't hear anyone who is afraid that the Republicans are going to riot if they don't win...but I hear a lot of people who worry about the Dems...how can you ignore this? Does it make you proud? It's an absolute outrage.

 

[Gokul43201]

On the republican side, the problem lies with the leadership. People in high positions in State, Justice or the Executive wing doing things to undermine democracy.

The problem on the democratic side is a bunch of extreme lunatics who think it's okay to vent their outrage with the Administration on the common man.

 

[Gokul43201]

I don't hear anyone who is afraid that the Republicans are going to riot if they don't win...but I hear a lot of people who worry about the Dems...how can you ignore this?

What are you implying by this ?

You're not going to have a bunch of CEOs and top-tier executives rioting, no matter what. Rioters are always the poor folk - the homeless, the unemployed or underemployed and such kinds.

 

[kat]

What are you implying by this ?

You're not going to have a bunch of CEOs and top-tier executives rioting, no matter what. Rioters are always the poor folk - the homeless, the unemployed or underemployed and such kinds.

What are you implying by this? That there aren't impoverished or unemployed/under-employed republicans?
I suspect it would be students, or the under 25 crowd. Although that's only supposition or my own feeeeeellings.

 

[Gokul43201]

So you agree that the demographic that is more prone to rioting is mostly liberal, rather than conservative, while the demographic that is more prone to say, violence against gays is mostly conservative, rather than liberal...and so on.

 

[kat]

So you agree that the demographic that is more prone to rioting is mostly liberal, rather than conservative, while the demographic that is more prone to say, violence against gays is mostly conservative, rather than liberal...and so on.

I'd probably agree with a lot of things, including who is more likely to wear a wife beater but it's irrelevant to election and post election results...
Which again, I am expecting to be close, prolonged and volatile. I'm not worried about rioting if Kerry wins..I am worried about rioting if Bush wins. I should not have to worry about rioting when I cast my vote, all I should have to be concerned with is casting a vote for who I think can best lead my country. I think it needs to be recognized and condemned in the strongest words from the Democratic side but instead I get a sense...nothing specific but a sense that it's being pushed rather then denounced.

 

[Gokul43201]

I should not have to worry about rioting when I cast my vote, all I should have to be concerned with is casting a vote for who I think can best lead my country. I think it needs to be recognized and condemned in the strongest words from the Democratic side but instead I get a sense...nothing specific but a sense that it's being pushed rather then denounced.

I know folks who are concerned that they may not get to vote at all, because the RNC has hired some 36,000 people in Ohio to challenge the credentials of voters, who I sense - nothing specific but a sense - will do anything they can to cause longer lines, delays and frustration, in the more liberal precincts.

 

[Gokul43201]

On the other hand, if the leadership among the DNC is being callous, not to say supportive of violence and rioting, that's just downright shameful and pathetic.

 

[franznietzsche]

Isn't great how people think elections get worse every year? They don't. Close elections have always been this bad. It is nothing new.

 

[wasteofo2]

I'm not a republican and I think you've called me that before and I've corrected you before...so maybe it's time you figured it out and stopped repeating it. In fact I didn't vote for Bush 4 years ago. 2 years ago I voted for a Democratic governor for Maine...which many of us are regretting but not all of it is his fault. I also voted for the Independent Governor King before him. Actually, now that I think of it...I've never voted for a republican Governor..

I'm sorry if I've called you a Republican before and you got offended, if you've corrected me, I'd honestly forgotten.

I haven't been listening to the Ohio Sec. of State so I don't know what he's saying but..I expect a lot of litigation...more division...and possibly riots if Bush clearly wins. I'm glad I don't live in the city. In fact if I lived in one of the highly contested states I'd be downright terrified if Bush has a clear victory.

I wouldn't expect violence/riots if Bush clearly and legitimately wins. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened should Bush win the way he won Florida last time. Does it more reflect on the character of the parties constituants, or does it more reflect on the respective candidates? I tend to think that Kerry just isn't as outrageous as Bush. Bush has the honor of having the largest global protest in history occur over a proposed action of his, Bush had the largest convention protest at his convention, people just hate Bush. John Kerry may not be the best, but I don't think that most people really give a crap either way about Kerry, especially when your side has a majority in both legislative houses.

[/QUOTE]
This is the most disgusting election I've ever viewed and I'm beginning to view the Dems as the more divisive of the two sides. Breaking into Rep. Headquarters, shooting into Rep. Headquarters, breaking the arm of a rep. volunteer at one of the Repub headquarters...this is an outrage. I don't hear anyone who is afraid that the Republicans are going to riot if they don't win...but I hear a lot of people who worry about the Dems...how can you ignore this? Does it make you proud? It's an absolute outrage.[/QUOTE]

This is the first election I've payed any attention to (being a teenager and all), so hopefully this isn't the standard from now on. I've actually not heard of anything but the breaking into of a republican headquarters, which is dispicable for sure. If those other things are true, they're horrible and disgusting, but I hardly think you can say "Democrats are x" based on the actions of a few people who don't like Bush. If you want to get into generalizations about parties and label the Democrats as violent a devisive, then you'd have to accept Republicans as being the party of racism and stupidity. Though, again, the actions of a few fringe elements don't represent the party as a whole.

 

[franznietzsche]

This is the most disgusting election I've ever viewed and I'm beginning to view the Dems as the more divisive of the two sides. Breaking into Rep. Headquarters, shooting into Rep. Headquarters, breaking the arm of a rep. volunteer at one of the Repub headquarters...this is an outrage. I don't hear anyone who is afraid that the Republicans are going to riot if they don't win...but I hear a lot of people who worry about the Dems...how can you ignore this? Does it make you proud? It's an absolute outrage.

This is the first election I've payed any attention to (being a teenager and all), so hopefully this isn't the standard from now on. I've actually not heard of anything but the breaking into of a republican headquarters, which is dispicable for sure. If those other things are true, they're horrible and disgusting, but I hardly think you can say "Democrats are x" based on the actions of a few people who don't like Bush. If you want to get into generalizations about parties and label the Democrats as violent a devisive, then you'd have to accept Republicans as being the party of racism and stupidity. Though, again, the actions of a few fringe elements don't represent the party as a whole.

Again: Elections have always been this bad. Nothing new. Get used to it.

 

[setAI]

I'm not worried about rioting if Kerry wins

Republicans do not riot- they would nullify elections and declare MARSHALL LAW- they put down insurgencies and rebellions-not make them

the only people that riot are the powerless who have no other choice- the GOP represent a group with more police/military/economic power than any other group of people in the history of the human race-


I am worried that A Kerry victory will not be accepted by those with power and the belief that their lord Jesus Christ has MANDATED them to control the world and advance the cause of the White Race at any cost- they have already looked into it

"we would not see a need to delay the election unless a major event took place- such as if a major city has a black-out" Dick Cheney- Spring 2004

 

[Moonbear]

I know folks who are concerned that they may not get to vote at all, because the RNC has hired some 36,000 people in Ohio to challenge the credentials of voters, who I sense - nothing specific but a sense - will do anything they can to cause longer lines, delays and frustration, in the more liberal precincts.

Gokul, you'll be happy to hear that a Cincinnati judge has blocked challengers from being present at the polls. They're still trying to appeal, but the judge's opinion is that it will be found to be unconsititional because it is an intimidation tactic and more importantly, because there is no opportunity for those denied voting from appealing before the polls close. So, only the poll workers will be deciding if someone has the appropriate ID/credentials to vote. I'm glad the judge ruled against the challengers...apparently they were planning to target polls in predominantly black communities. This city has too much discrimination...we actually have an issue on our ballots to REPEAL a law already on the books that expressly permits discrimination in hiring gay people! When I first saw this issue listed for the ballot, I was shocked that such a law could even exist in this day and age! This city is so backward.

Kat, I really don't understand why you are worrying there will be riots if Bush wins. Who do you think is going to riot, and where did you even get this idea from? It sounds a bit like paranoia! I'm just expecting a repeat of 2000, with a lot of legal challenges from both sides well into Dec before a winner is determined.

 

[Gokul43201]

Gokul, you'll be happy to hear that a Cincinnati judge has blocked challengers from being present at the polls. They're still trying to appeal, but the judge's opinion is that it will be found to be unconsititional because it is an intimidation tactic and more importantly, because there is no opportunity for those denied voting from appealing before the polls close.

Yes, I saw this in the news today. Hoping the appeal gets turned down...haven't heard anything about that yet.

 

[kat]

Moonbear, Gokul,
I think the Federal Appeals court overturned that ruling yesterday allowing challengers to be present in Ohio.

 

[kat]

Kat, I really don't understand why you are worrying there will be riots if Bush wins. Who do you think is going to riot, and where did you even get this idea from? It sounds a bit like paranoia! I'm just expecting a repeat of 2000, with a lot of legal challenges from both sides well into Dec before a winner is determined.

Well, there was this:
Supporter: Kerry's going to take PA.

Liz Edwards: I know that.

Supporter: I'm just worried there's going to be riots afterwards.

Liz Edwards: Uh...well...not if we win.

DRUDGE presents an audio clip of the exchange. http://drudgereport.com/ee.mp3

Which isn't indicative of itself except that it does suggest others are concerned about the same thing and it's been publicly noted by the possibly next first lady that it is probably that it would happen. Then there was also a call for protesting by others... There was one that gave specific places to go after the election if Bush won. I know this doesn't hold much as I can't remember where off the top of my head but..It did happen, honest!

 

[kat]

Okay, here's one:

http://www.thestranger.com/2004-10-28/feature4.html

If Bush gets reelected on November 2--if half of our fellow citizens lose their minds, or if he manages to steal the election again--storming Seattle's federal offices, prisons, and property will let him know that we're not going down without a fight this time. Here's a list of federal sites in Seattle that could be perfect places to protest:

Now, they are saying protest..but given the emotions that are flowing this election I could very well see that turning into rioting. This combined with Edwards Premonition..

I'll post more if I see it.

 

[kat]

Here's another, same source.

http://www.thestranger.com/2004-10-21/city.html

 

[Moonbear]

Moonbear, Gokul,
I think the Federal Appeals court overturned that ruling yesterday allowing challengers to be present in Ohio.

Yep, apparently it got through late last night. The troublesome thing is that Ohio law doesn't require people to bring photo ID (or any ID actually) with them to the polls, and this was even written on an FAQs put out by the Secretary of State's office, but if the challengers are present, they can require a photo ID. This does put poor voters at a disadvantage because they are the ones who may not have a drivers' license (what other form of photo ID do most people have?) because they are the ones who don't own cars, but take buses or walk. And once someone is turned away at the polls, I don't know what options they have to come back with some form of ID if they didn't bring it in the first place, and once turned away, are they going to go home and come back a second time? I should note that it's pouring rain here in Cincinnati. If someone has to walk to the polls or stand out waiting for a bus, they probably are going to get discouraged about returning if turned away to get more identification.

I think the only thing that will help keep them honest is the local TV stations are around covering polling locations and watching the challengers too, including posting a hotline number to get help if you are given trouble voting...you know they are hoping for a good story, so that might keep the challengers from getting too carried away if they know someone else is watching and planning to put them all over the news if they start making this the equivalent of old Jim Crow laws.

 

[Moonbear]

Here's another, same source.

http://www.thestranger.com/2004-10-21/city.html

The language on that site is appalling! (Anyone who is easily offended by foul language, don't follow Kat's link.) I don't know why anyone would read past the first few lines.