Violent Flash Mobs organized through social media

Evo

When the protests don't become riots, why on earth would the police protection make the news? "Newsflash - Nothing happened today at a peaceful protest which was protected by local police." Film at 11.

Apparently the police protection works.

Galteeth

Police are frequently assigned to protect the WBC people when they protest.


EDIT: In most cases, protestors don't have much to fear from other civilians. Groups like the KKK and Westboro would be exceptions.

"Apparently the police protection works." I'm sure you're not suggesting that police never rough up protestors.

Evo

No, I'm saying when they do, it's in the news.

Proton Soup

well, the prison sentence for stealing water was harsh, but i think part of that is that we can identify with an electrical engineering student as someone like us. but the assaults, and especially the arsons, could be worth that.

it still seems to me, though, that once you start seeing mayhem, you really need to establish a large police presence. even the presence will calm most of the joy-rioters without having to go to total control.

i just hate the idea of using some crazy law to outlaw most all forms of protest or political activism. speech in government-approved speech zones and predetermined times isn't really free speech.

Proton Soup

i'm still in awe of Norway. how do they do it? what about them instills a sense of social responsibility that makes keeping a large percentage of their population in jail unnecessary?

ThomasT

Good question. It might have something to do with Norway's degree of racial, ethnic and cultural homogeneity. Among highly developed countries, the other Scandinavian countries, and Japan, and European countries in general, have much lower (about a tenth) incarceration rates than the US, which has by far the highest incarceration rate and also is probably the most racially, ethnically and culturally inhomogeneous country.

But maybe that's not a key factor wrt the flash mobs that this thread is about.

Rioters (in relatively recent memory) and flash mobbers tend to be predominantly young and African American (and whatever the British equivalent are called) -- but not immigrants. This is also the case with the prison population in the US (not sure about England).

It seems clear enough to me that this has a lot to do with the urban (sub)culture of criminality, violence and contempt for the rights of others that these kids grow up in. They've just taken the youthful 'rebel without a cause' thing to another level that nobody really knows how to deal with. And this is all magnified and exacerbated by modern refinements in communications technologies.

ginru

But that subculture emerges from a lack of positive social structure and that is the real problem behind violent youth. When we see a black teenager involved in gang crime or a white middle-class kid that shoots up his school, we tend to treat these as completely separate issues because of ethnic differences but the common thread is in how youth have lost faith in taking constructive paths and instead turned to destructive influences for easy answers.

Personally, I think there has been a breakdown of the balanced family structure as that would supply stability. We dwell too much on the sexual preference of couples instead of focusing on the balancing of breadwinner and homemaker roles. I fully support women being free to achieve financial success and empowerment but in order to keep the balance then perhaps we need more men to transition into providing progressive leadership on the home front. If kids are getting bullied, then where are the parents to police the situation... if kids are out on the streets late at night, then where are the elders to drag them by their ears back home? There's a lot of talk about unemployment numbers nationwide but the most important jobs in our communities seem to be vacant.

AlephZero

Anyway, these two won't be doing any more organizing using social media for a while...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ester-14551582

ThomasT

They got light sentences (4 years, which they probably won't do all of) for serious deliberate crimes that carry a maximum penalty of 10 years. This is what I don't understand. The authorities in England say that the sentences send the message that this sort of behavior won't be tolerated. But it seems to me that they're sending the message that if you're caught and convicted, then you can expect to get a light sentence relative to what the law allows. 'Gangstas' and their minions of wannabes expect to go to prison for a few years for things like armed robbery, murder, assault, drug dealing, rape, etc.

The light sentencing tendency is part of the problem.

Galteeth

Hey guys, let's have some perspective here. The violent crime rates were much higher in the 70's and 80's. I think the whole "moral fabric of society collapsing" is tread out by every generation. There always will be and always has been crime. What's different, in regards to "flash mobs" which let's keep in mind mostly aren't violent or criminal, is the way in which they are organized.

Couldn't you picture headlines in the 1890's: Violent gangsters now using telephone machine to conduct crime! Before, criminals needed to actually meet in person to plan or commit crimes. Now they can conspire from the secrecy of their homes! Civilization is finished!

ThomasT

I don't disagree with you, but I'm not sure what your point is. What are you recommending? Just think of violent flash mobs and riots as no big deal, relax and embrace the status quo? After all we've always had mobs and riots and gangsters and criminals. Is there no point in discussing ways of possibly improving things?

Proton Soup

yes, our crime rates were higher in the 70s and 80s. and then we started building larger prisons and keeping people incarcerated indefinitely and crime rates went down. so, we've been addressing the problem on the back end. what we haven't quite addressed yet is the problem on the front end, that pesky social fabric problem. if it were to come down to something so base as the previously-mentioned inhomogeneity stats, then we may be perpetually screwed. but if it is perhaps also related to something else, like say financial inequities, then perhaps we need to consider addressing the relative costs of that versus maintaining a huge crime and punishment industry.

rhody

Now, Maryland imitators... Ack...

'Flash mob' robs Maryland 7-Eleven in less than a minute, police say

Rhody...