Register to reply

Sound waves versus equilibrium

by klimatos
Tags: equilibrium, sound, versus, waves
Share this thread:
klimatos
#1
Aug11-11, 02:16 PM
P: 409
Postulate a parcel of air that is transmitting sound waves. Can that parcel ever be considered to be in a state of equilibrium? I maintain that it cannot. How say you?
Phys.Org News Partner Physics news on Phys.org
Physicists discuss quantum pigeonhole principle
First in-situ images of void collapse in explosives
The first supercomputer simulations of 'spin?orbit' forces between neutrons and protons in an atomic nucleus
Studiot
#2
Aug11-11, 03:05 PM
P: 5,462
What is your definition of equilibrium?

Match this against the situation and post your answer.
klimatos
#3
Aug11-11, 06:41 PM
P: 409
Quote Quote by Studiot View Post
What is your definition of equilibrium?

Match this against the situation and post your answer.
Fair enough. Kinetic gas theory says a gas is in a state of equilibrium when its entropy has been maximized. I maintain that a gas transmitting sound waves is not in a state of maximum entropy. Consequently, the Ideal Gas Equation of State at Equilibrium would not apply to that parcel of air.

Studiot
#4
Aug12-11, 02:44 AM
P: 5,462
Sound waves versus equilibrium

Kinetic gas theory says a gas is in a state of equilibrium when its entropy has been maximized.
Not quite.

A system is said to be in equilibrium when it has no further tendency to change its properties of interest.

In particular considering thermodynamic equilibrium (it is not the kinetic theory by the way) a system is isolated if the internal energy and volume are constant.

It can be shown that in an isolated system (with constant U and V) the entropy tends to a maximum.

So yes for an isolated system in equilibrium, the entropy is a maximum

Is your gas an isolated system?
Lobezno
#5
Aug12-11, 07:48 AM
P: 53
Kinetic Gas Theory makes a whole range of assumptions which are not completely true. Complete elasticity of collisions is ALMOST completely true, but not quite.
Simon Bridge
#6
Jan2-14, 04:17 PM
Homework
Sci Advisor
HW Helper
Thanks
Simon Bridge's Avatar
P: 12,447
We would not expect a volume of air with sound waves passing through it to satisfy the OPs definition of being in equilibrium because the volume of air is not an isolated system.
Why would anyone think it might be?

It is not clear what the point of the 1st post is.
If the intention is to start a conversation, as in social media, then isn't it more polite to kick things off yourself?
klimatos
#7
Jan2-14, 09:17 PM
P: 409
Quote Quote by Simon Bridge View Post
If the intention is to start a conversation, as in social media, then isn't it more polite to kick things off yourself?
I agree. Point taken. But why wait more than two years to bring this to my attention?
Simon Bridge
#8
Jan2-14, 09:27 PM
Homework
Sci Advisor
HW Helper
Thanks
Simon Bridge's Avatar
P: 12,447
Quote Quote by klimatos View Post
I agree. Point taken. But why wait more than two years to bring this to my attention?
Because I'm an idiot?

I only just noticed and didn't check the date stamp - it happens :)
klimatos
#9
Jan2-14, 09:40 PM
P: 409
Quote Quote by Simon Bridge View Post
Because I'm an idiot?

I only just noticed and didn't check the date stamp - it happens :)
No harm, no foul.
Simon Bridge
#10
Jan2-14, 10:36 PM
Homework
Sci Advisor
HW Helper
Thanks
Simon Bridge's Avatar
P: 12,447
Red Wizard needs coffee - urgently!


Register to reply

Related Discussions
Light versus sound waves : velocity Classical Physics 10
Wavelength of sound waves and speed of sound in air column Introductory Physics Homework 1
Comparing sound waves to waves in a Coaxial Cable aka T.E.M. Advanced Physics Homework 5
Speed of sound versus frequency General Physics 4
Why will ultrasonic waves not interfere with other sound waves in water? Introductory Physics Homework 1