John Titor... Time travler.


by Integral
Tags: john, time, titor, travler
phoenixthoth
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#19
Sep10-03, 04:15 AM
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i tried registering on that site but my email has already been banned so that i cannot. interesting.

i can't even begin to speculate on why that is; i feel it must be an error.

i'm trying to contact john for myself for i have my own questions. one of them is this: why would someone pretend to be a time traveler from the future, theoretically speaking; what would they have to gain?

on the site, the physicist (if i'm not mistaken) reported that john wishes as few contacts as possible (for his own reasons). but he apparenly will spend time with a physicist. why, i ask? why the need for validation from relatively primative scientists? how on earth could sufficiently advanced science be explained to those of a limited viewpoint? how would we explain superstring theory to the anceint egyptians? they wouldn't believe us and call us frauds. it sounds to me as if this john character is in his own self-reinforcing delusional world if he isn't a bona fide time traveler. he can always excuse himself by suggesting that current science just can't understand his advanced science. in fact, anyone with sufficient background in science fiction knows that if you just go through a portal created by chronaton particles, you can travel to any point in time instantaneously and always argue that it's just that the chronoton hasn't been discovered yet because it isn't sought for. what a problem...

may your journey be graceful,
phoenix
Eh
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#20
Sep10-03, 09:42 AM
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Just when I think people in this part of the world can't get any dumber, something like this comes up. I mean, how gullible does one have to be in order to buy into this nonsense? Making educated guesses about the future is easy.
Zantra
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#21
Sep10-03, 10:09 AM
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phoenix-

I tried registering too and had trouble. It wouldn't take any of my generic(hotmail, yahoo, etc) email accounts. I think they banned them or something, and in fact had to register a personal account to get it to work. It said the other ones were banned, and I'd never been to that site before. Just a heads up.
phoenixthoth
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#22
Sep10-03, 03:18 PM
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let me reply to both recent posts.

zantra, thanks for the heads up. for a second there, i felt like i had become a specific target for some reason; it is enlightening to know that others with generic emails are blocked as well. thanks for the heads up. i will try registering under a different email address. luckily i have one up my sleeve.

as for the gullibility comment, i'd like to point out that no one here has expressed the opinion that they believe this john titor guy, only that we find him an interesting topic for discussion. it is our time to waste on the subject, though it raises geeneric questions such as where are time travelling tourists and historians? are they here but keeping a low profile because they're following rules about not influencing the timeline? why go back in time to witness it when you can just read about it in a book? maybe there is seen to be no need to go back in time. perhaps the interesting direction is FORWARDS and therefore we would never encounter a time traveler. perhaps that's why there are no time travelers: they can easily access history from their own sources without the need to actually go back and witness it. or maybe they also have invented an invisibility potion by then and they're all around us but invisible to current technology. but, at that point, who really cares if there are time travelers here if they're not going to influece the timeline and not going to interact with us historical figures?

(btw, zantra, i love the highlander series! do you think duncan will be the last immortal standing when the dust settles? wouldn't it be a tragedy if he was the last one standing and got killed in some stupid accident?)

may your journey be graceful,
phoenix
Zantra
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#23
Sep10-03, 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by phoenixthoth
let me reply to both recent posts.

zantra, thanks for the heads up. for a second there, i felt like i had become a specific target for some reason; it is enlightening to know that others with generic emails are blocked as well. thanks for the heads up. i will try registering under a different email address. luckily i have one up my sleeve.

as for the gullibility comment, i'd like to point out that no one here has expressed the opinion that they believe this john titor guy, only that we find him an interesting topic for discussion. it is our time to waste on the subject, though it raises geeneric questions such as where are time travelling tourists and historians? are they here but keeping a low profile because they're following rules about not influencing the timeline? why go back in time to witness it when you can just read about it in a book? maybe there is seen to be no need to go back in time. perhaps the interesting direction is FORWARDS and therefore we would never encounter a time traveler. perhaps that's why there are no time travelers: they can easily access history from their own sources without the need to actually go back and witness it. or maybe they also have invented an invisibility potion by then and they're all around us but invisible to current technology. but, at that point, who really cares if there are time travelers here if they're not going to influece the timeline and not going to interact with us historical figures?

(btw, zantra, i love the highlander series! do you think duncan will be the last immortal standing when the dust settles? wouldn't it be a tragedy if he was the last one standing and got killed in some stupid accident?)

may your journey be graceful,
phoenix
Yes that truly would be a tragedy, but who says those writers don't have a sick sense of humor?[;)].

As far as why they would go back. Well don't you think if you had a chance to go back to the time of christ and witness it firsthand, it's a lot more interesting than just reading the bible? If indeed time travel does exist, they are no doubt keeping a low profile. One thing we can learn from John Titor was his exploitation of the common perception. Even if you DID claim to be a time traveller, and were genuine. And short of taking people for a ride, who's going to believe you? No without making some accurate near-future predictions that come true. Now if he'd even HINTED at 9-11, he'd have made a believer out of me. But he didn't drop so much as a hint before he left- Stating all these rules of non-intervention etc, etc. In psychological circles this is known as a self-reinforcing delusion. Indeed he made absolutely no predictions prior to leaving, except those far enough in the future that he wouldn't be held accountable when they didn't come true. John titor isn't a real name- as he himself pointed out- TIme Travel OR. if he was truly a historic observer, he could have interacted without even revealing himself and accomplished the same goal. If he were adhering to those self imposed "TT rules" he supposedly followed, he wouldn't have mentioned it. It's simply narcissism. He needed to feed his ego, and he suceeeded. This is some wacko. I'm pretty well satisfied of it.
phoenixthoth
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#24
Sep10-03, 05:26 PM
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so i take it that the physicist on anomalies.net, in your opinion, successfully debunked john?

isn't it possible that current science just can't understand advanced science?

but, then again, this leads us back to the position that he's in a self-reinforcing delusion. how do you, really, convince someone that their reality, the reality they see, is WRONG? especially someone who believes it so strongly based on skant evidence, evidence that is circumstantial and sounding like science fiction?

cheers,
phoenix
Sunfist
#25
Sep10-03, 06:10 PM
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In my opinion, Titor is one of two things. One, a fraud. Two, like the man in the novel KPAX. In other words, his delusion is so complete, that his mind is capable of coming up with pseudoscience that actually makes sense in some situations. (And repeats, ie, if you ask him a question twice, you get the same answer.)
phoenixthoth
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#26
Sep10-03, 06:16 PM
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"It is only the inferior thinker who hastens to explain the singular and the complex by the primitive shortcut of supernaturalism."

i agree that those seem to be the two possible opinions on john. i agree that his position is respetable from a certain point of view, if i were to muddle your words a little...

now that you've stated that these are the two possible opinions one can have on mr. titor, what is YOUR position?

my position is to remain undecided for now and to continue finding the idea interesting enough to investigate further and NOT a waste of time.

i would only be convinced that he is a time traveler if i were to go for a ride with him in his machine. i have predecided that that is what will constitute proof that he is a time traveler. until then, i will remain interested but undecided.

cheers,
phoenix
Zantra
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#27
Sep10-03, 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by phoenixthoth
so i take it that the physicist on anomalies.net, in your opinion, successfully debunked john?

isn't it possible that current science just can't understand advanced science?

but, then again, this leads us back to the position that he's in a self-reinforcing delusion. how do you, really, convince someone that their reality, the reality they see, is WRONG? especially someone who believes it so strongly based on skant evidence, evidence that is circumstantial and sounding like science fiction?

cheers,
phoenix
I never peg anything at 100 percent unless I'm sure of it. Do I know without a shred of doubt that 1+1=2? Yes. I'm I 100 percent convinced he's a wacko?No. There's a small percentage of me that holds out the possibility that there may be some truth to this. If events were to begin escalating in 2004 towards a civil war, no doubt I'd pay attention, and perhaps even take action. But as he said, the signs will be obvious, so I have plenty of time to plan[;)]
phoenixthoth
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#28
Sep10-03, 10:39 PM
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i think higher truth can be learned from the equation 1 + 1 = 2.

here's why.

that's not something you can prove. not even close. i can explain to you why this can't be proved if you permit me and ask me to. this is what my master's background in mathematics leads me to believe; this is what the evidence indicates. so, for the moment, i'm making an appeal to myself as an authority but i would remain skeptical if i were you that it is impossible to prove that 1+1=2.

here's the higher truth.

you can believe that 1+1=2 without proof. to generalize, you can believe something, in fact know something to be true, without having proof.

therefore, it is conceivable (at best) that one could believe in God without proof.

the question is this: what constitutes ample evidence? there is all kinds of evidence: legal evidence, mathematical evidence, scientific evidence, philosophical evidence, just to name a few.

what argument and/or evidence would be pursuasive enough to convince someone that God exists? for me, direct first-hand experience cuts it. for me, that is ample evidence. elsewhere, i've posted suggestions on how to see God for yourself and i only wonder why wouldn't you be willing to put in the time and effort on the matter. it took me about two months (not to mention the rest of my life) of concentrated (though non-directed) effort to obtain any results, positive or negative on the God issue.

knowledge is power; ignorance is bliss: you decide. (secret: you can have both power and bliss).

may your journey be graceful,
phoenix
Zantra
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#29
Sep10-03, 10:51 PM
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I agree-direct first hand physical evidence is my requirement. IMO he hasn't provided that. On the other hand it has niether been unequivicably proven that he's a fraud. Some will make an ASSUMPTION of that based on the lack of available evidence- that is thier shortcoming, not to mention a double standard. science is predicated on the belief that a theory must be proven or disproven, but they quite often take the lack of evidence as disproof, which goes against scientific premise.

*shrug*
Sunfist
#30
Sep10-03, 11:05 PM
P: n/a
Originally posted by phoenixthoth
i agree that those seem to be the two possible opinions on john. i agree that his position is respetable from a certain point of view, if i were to muddle your words a little...

now that you've stated that these are the two possible opinions one can have on mr. titor, what is YOUR position?

my position is to remain undecided for now and to continue finding the idea interesting enough to investigate further and NOT a waste of time.

i would only be convinced that he is a time traveler if i were to go for a ride with him in his machine. i have predecided that that is what will constitute proof that he is a time traveler. until then, i will remain interested but undecided.

cheers,
phoenix
I haven't made up my mind. I tend to believe the second one more than the first. I don't really think he is lying as much as insane. I highly doubt that he is a time traveller.

I am also not going to discuss him any more because if he is lying, then this is his motivation. To see how many people he can get talking about him. I'm not going to join in. I'm just goin to think about it to myself.

I agree. The only way I would believe him is to be taken inside a time machine with him. Of course, even though his discussions have survived 3 years and are still talked about, I imagine he will be discussed a lot less in another 3 years. (That is, unless the US really does enter a civil war. Then, he might be talked about a great deal more.)
phoenixthoth
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#31
Sep11-03, 12:51 AM
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"science is predicated on the belief that a theory must be proven or disproven, but they quite often take the lack of evidence as disproof, which goes against scientific premise."

i agree with that fully. furthermore, i find it dissapointing, though understandable, that respectable physicists will not "waste time" investigating "alternate" theories and try to disprove them. i think it would be really educational to find the flaw in the argument and line of inquiry. i think it would help the discovery process along a little. but, then again, debunking theories is kinda a waste of time when you could spend time developing what you think is the right theory. on that note, i find it interesting that string theorists have NO experimental evidence that they're not ALL INSANE. depends on what you mean by "insane." i have a love/hate relationship with the word insane. i believe insanity is seeing a reality no one else sees, or that only few others see. in that sense, columbus and his collective that thought the earth was round were insane until they were proven to be the only sane ones. why bother talking to insane people, then? well, IMO, they are right about 1% of the time. if you talk to 100 insane people, you'll get a revolutionary idea once. the rest of them are spinning their collective wheels. i admire their inspiration either way. (i distance myself from the group of insane people when all the evidence indicates that i'm insane as well... *shrug*)

may your journey be graceful,
phoenix
Zantra
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#32
Sep11-03, 12:53 AM
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I'd read those posts of his about the future. I prefer choice A. he's a wacked out nutjob otherwise I'm making my preperations to go to south america [;)]
phoenixthoth
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#33
Sep11-03, 01:03 AM
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the way i see things, though perhaps i watch the news too much, the world is heading towards a major global conflict within the next 50 years almost certainly. and i find this thought very disturbing and troubling. i'm not so sure there will be a civil war II or WWIII but that war will be raging in all corners of the globe by dozens of sides by 2050 if we (or THEY) can't figure out what to do.

someone here once said that it's not hard to predict the immediate future and this is the future i predict; it's not based on magic, it seems to be a logical consequence of the way things are going.

so what can i possibly do about it? should i, like you, consider moving to south america? should i learn survival skills? should i stock up in food and figure out alernate sources of food?

how distressing!

--phoenix
Zantra
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#34
Sep11-03, 03:13 AM
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http://www.anomalies.net/cgi-bin/bbs...c;f=9;t=000462

And the story unravels itsself. Check out the pamela post towards the end of this post

http://www.anomalies.net/cgi-bin/bbs...9;t=000454;p=5

Phoenix

For what it's worth, I agree with you that it's very possible that we are headed towards another major world conflict. That's what made us actually consider this JT guy as a possibility- he was playing on the fears that I'm sure many of us have, myself included- that nuclear war is eminent, and a seemingly unescapable reality that we must face. In the 1960's there was a similar paranoia during the the cold war and the cuban missle crisis. People were building bomb shelters and holding war drills in schools. though I wouldn't like to see this type of paranoia grip our society, it is a nagging reality in the backs of our minds. Should we all give up our homes and lifesyles to relocated to remote locations of the US and the rest of the globe in hopes of surviving a nuclear holocaust that may come in months, years, decades, or perhaps not even in our lifetimes? I guess that depends on on how strong your survival instinct is. Some would not want to, and even more COULD not survive the aftermath of a fullout nuclear war. As for me, if I were given sufficient warnings and time, I would make every effort to survive, but the reality of it is that unless you're given at least a day's warning to get away from any major city, you either wouldn't survive, or would die a slow, horrible, and painful death from nuclear radiation poisoning. Personally, I would hope to go in the initial blast, rather than the 2nd alternative.

Another grim thought to consider. Perhaps the reason we have never seen any time travelers, is because there's no one left in the future TO time travel. We can only hope and pray that the fear of the devestation nuclear war would cause, is a strong enough deterrent to the leaders of our countries. Never take anything for granted, for you never know when it just may be your last.
phoenixthoth
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#35
Sep11-03, 03:30 AM
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"Another grim thought to consider. Perhaps the reason we have never seen any time travelers, is because there's no one left in the future TO time travel. We can only hope and pray that the fear of the devestation nuclear war would cause, is a strong enough deterrent to the leaders of our countries. Never take anything for granted, for you never know when it just may be your last."

i rather didn't enjoy reading this. perhaps there are no time travelers because we all die; how depressing is that? i think too few people are speaking out and it may be too little too late. let's CONSIDER asking the native americans what to do about iraq. let's CONSIDER asking kaku what to do about iraq. let's CONSIDER asking walter cronkite what to do about iraq. let's CONSIDER asking someone besides the current administration and those who just want to politically destroy him (on the other side) what to do. it seems to me that america is an entity, like myself, trying to enlighten others while itself being almost devoid of any enlightenment. we live in a society where sometimes animals are given better shelter than humans, for God's sake. i used to be homeless myself and i don't appreciate seeing on the news a housing complex built that's new and big that only holds two cats per room when i had four beds in my room. how can america expect to solve global problems without solving domestic problems first (i ask myself parallel questions)?

"cheers,"
phoenix
radagast
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#36
Sep11-03, 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by phoenixthoth
"science is predicated on the belief that a theory must be proven or disproven, but they quite often take the lack of evidence as disproof, which goes against scientific premise."
I believe this is an erroneous misinterpretation of science and it's practice. Part can relate to Occams razor.

Occam is the one that states that given two or more competeing explanations/theories/etc. where all evidence is equal, the simplest explanation is the most rational explanation [given the evidence at hand].

It is only human nature that leads to the erroneous belief that a lack of evidence is disproof of anything. Rational thought, however, does give us Occams razor. The razor is a rational method for dismissing explanations that expound unfounded 'reasons', without bound.

Since I've never heard of a scientific theory that has been or could be proven, I'm a little skeptical of the rest of the quote.


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