John Titor... Time travler.

phoenixthoth

"Another grim thought to consider. Perhaps the reason we have never seen any time travelers, is because there's no one left in the future TO time travel. We can only hope and pray that the fear of the devestation nuclear war would cause, is a strong enough deterrent to the leaders of our countries. Never take anything for granted, for you never know when it just may be your last."

i rather didn't enjoy reading this. perhaps there are no time travelers because we all die; how depressing is that? i think too few people are speaking out and it may be too little too late. let's CONSIDER asking the native americans what to do about iraq. let's CONSIDER asking kaku what to do about iraq. let's CONSIDER asking walter cronkite what to do about iraq. let's CONSIDER asking someone besides the current administration and those who just want to politically destroy him (on the other side) what to do. it seems to me that america is an entity, like myself, trying to enlighten others while itself being almost devoid of any enlightenment. we live in a society where sometimes animals are given better shelter than humans, for God's sake. i used to be homeless myself and i don't appreciate seeing on the news a housing complex built that's new and big that only holds two cats per room when i had four beds in my room. how can america expect to solve global problems without solving domestic problems first (i ask myself parallel questions)?

"cheers,"
phoenix

radagast

I believe this is an erroneous misinterpretation of science and it's practice. Part can relate to Occams razor.

Occam is the one that states that given two or more competeing explanations/theories/etc. where all evidence is equal, the simplest explanation is the most rational explanation [given the evidence at hand].

It is only human nature that leads to the erroneous belief that a lack of evidence is disproof of anything. Rational thought, however, does give us Occams razor. The razor is a rational method for dismissing explanations that expound unfounded 'reasons', without bound.

Since I've never heard of a scientific theory that has been or could be proven, I'm a little skeptical of the rest of the quote.

merak

hoho haha ho ho hehe haha ho ho he sorry sometimes it just soooooooooo good to laugh!!!

Ivan Seeking

Really we agree but with one qualifier: Occam's razor is just a guideline. This is not a test for reality. Sometimes the more complicated explanation is required.

Zantra

maybe I missed the joke- perhaps you can enlighten us[;)] Personally I don't find the idea of my skin literally melting off my bones while my organs congeal into so much puss as very funny. And that's no hoax or science fiction. This "time traveller" guy was funny- nuclear war is not.

Zantra

I agree we do have to solve our domestic problems too. Also think Bush's foreign policy sucks, and he used the 9/11 attacks to justify his Saddam agenda and to finish what his father didn't. Hopefully the next president will able to the mend the fences that Bush is tearing down.

I'm sorry to hear that you were homeless. Though I did come from a modest upbringing, I've always been blessed with a roof over my head and food in my stomach. The US is too self-absorbed in it's own problems to look up and see just how good we have it. Haven't been to other countries, I can tell you that even the poor here live in the lap of luxury compared to most countries.

phoenixthoth

no, zantra, you are quite wrong about the poor here living in the lap of luxury compared to what is going on in other countries. the poor here are in the same boat as the poor in other countries. i'm particularly speaking of the "mentally ill" homeless.

i must admit that you are partially right. for example, in ione where i live, there is a homeless shelter (with limited beds) and YOU CAN STAY FOR ONLY ONE MONTH. if you haven't got a job and saved enough for housing all in only a month, where are you supposed to go from there? homeless shelter to homeless shelter? what a messed up life that is. the unemployment problem, the way i see it, is near a depression stage right now and it has the potential to lead to a chain reaction of unemployment and people stuck in welfare with nowhere to go. many people right here in "enlightened," "free," "democratic," america have NO WHERE TO GO. i think these issues need to be addressed before we go about nation building without a clue how to do it. it seems like we learned something about nation building with germany and japan but we may not be using those lessons in iraq simply because we are unwelcome in iraq. why stick our collective noses in others' business? and why choose only iraq and afganistan? what about all the other "evil" empires out there?

cheers,
phoenix

Zantra

I should rephrase that to I HAVE been to other countries and seen the conditions there. I'm not saying the homeless have it good compared to the rest of us, but compared to the rest of the 3rd world countries, even the homeless have more advantages. They also have job opportunities that aren't available even to the people WITH a home. Mentally ill homeless is another story.

phoenixthoth

zantra,

i've been to other countries too through the eyes of cameras on tv. i must change my statement and agree with you that homeless here have a few more opportunities than elsewhere. in native american culture, the homeless can approach ANYONE's home and assume he will be welcome as long as he does his or her share of chores and farmwork. i view that as the way it should go, but people are so corrupted by their urges to steal that no one can logically trust a stranger in their home. in native america, people were more trusting. it's almost like a wanderer becomes a part of the family. the family asks HIM what he has learned in his travels.

the mentally ill homeless is quite another story. society, it seems, is quite unsympathetic and dispassionate towards the mentally ill. in reality, there is no working solution for the severely disturbed. i've known people maxed out (dose wise) on medication and therapy but they just don't respond to treatment. why not consider the possibility that what they need is SPIRITUAL healing? no one has the tools, it seems, for spiritual healing either. certainly, doctors don't. the twelve step programs probably do but then you have to buy into the existence of a higher power. we're taught by a religionless education system to be highly skeptical of any higher power, so we are cut off from that resource and have to teach ourselves the hard way.

doubt of a higher power is quite a powerful tool, almost a weapon; a weapon indirectly cutting at the very core of the spiritual self. there are many who don't even believe they have a soul to sell.


phoenix

merak

zantra..I was laughing at the time traveler.there is nothing funny about war.
I can not see a time machine being built by 2036.
IF some said he was from the year 9036 maybe,but only if he could offer proof...

Zantra

ok just wanted to clear that up[;)]

PsYcHo_FiSh

The belief that the earth was flat was a common superstition then, as you know. However, this is not why Columbus sailed. It is a common misconception that he daringly sailed (romantically enough)to find out if the Earth was round or not but he really did it to find out how big it was. I mean, we know of the political and economic reasons (hopefully) but I'm referring to the scientific ones. Besides, I was reading a book about ancient science and it mentioned something about Columbus knowing the Earth was round simply by observing the water and islands.

Have you ever thought that it was about determining just how big the Earth was rather than how round it was? Because, centuries before now a Greek mathematician determined the earth was round and later a Muslim mathematician would determine the same thing. Amazingly, they even were able to get an idea of just how big around it is. At that time it was thought circa 24,000 miles. Of course, this isn't accurate but these folks were doing this stuff without Satellites :) Um, colonial surveying technology (acting in lieu of GPS), impressive as it still is, is another topic altogether.

Oh yeah, and Amerigo Vespucci (I'm not Titoring you) was not the one America was named after. Since, the maps he procured were from a European investor named a certain Mr. Ameryke who had them charted in search of fishing areas on the Atlantic. Anyways, the maps already had the name 'America' on them :)

On another foot, the people here need to get some perspective.

http://www.anomalies.net/cgi-bin/bbs...c;f=9;t=000462

At least it seems they are so caught up in this 'John Titor' moniker. I think its fun and when 04-05 rolls around and a nuclear holocaust starts, well it won't be fun. However, I doubt that will happen. I think 'John' as we call him is just an intelligent, knowledgable, creative person.

People are so awed by his ability to make general predictions about the future, some of which seem to have come true. However, I can throw out some vague predictions of what will happen tomorrow (metaphorically speaking) and some of them will probably come true. 'John' is just an insightful type with a knack for creative writing.

I enjoyed reading his stuff and for a while (all of a few minutes) he really had me taken in. However, I'll remain with an open mind but I'd like to think his reality does not come to be. At least the part with nuclear war, I mean come on that's kind of bleak.

Obviously this 'farmer soldier' type he is referring to is Cincinnatus (fyi, a Roman General who saved Rome and went right back to farming like he did before). He sounds like he knows the constitution and the history behind the founding father's. So do a lot of people, including myself. It seems as if he follows a more Jeffersonian view of how the U.S. should be.

Anyways, his message about not being lazy, taking responsibility and understanding that 'bigger' isn't always 'better' was well received here. As well, studying the U.S. constitution, I think thats important to. And, his thoughts on less centralized education, I agree with.

But, I always ask myself when confronted with a dilemma, which seems more likely? Then I tell myself to keep an open mind with an absence of data but go with the more likely possiblity in the mean time. With this John Titor fellow, lets just hope he's a rational prankster who's just having fun. If he's a delusional, well I feel sorry for him, I really do. And if he's for real, wow what a barbecue we might be heading for at this moment!

I enjoyed reading his thing and if anything, he may have just been trying to get a political message out.

In addendum, surrounding the 'John Titor' phenomena I see some fanboys, some wannabe experts in the field and even a therapist getting all serious with 'John' (which reminds me of a overzealous social worker).

Let's not speculate as fact everyone! I know people on this board would likely agree but, some people searching on Google (like myself) would not understand that concept. That's one area where people piss me off, unless of course, if they aren't playing.

Ivan Seeking

I think the FiSh speaks the truth.

Now there's a sentence I never expected to write! [:D]

PsYcHo_FiSh

Its all about looking for purpose. Sometimes I do find some and other times I don't. This instance it was obvious because he was interspersing it throughout his comments.

Um, I hate to ruin the fun of a practical joke by looking for purpose though. Initially, I just got a kick out of it. I mean, its so funny yet so entertaining in an entirely other way.

I hope dear John 'Time Travel oR' isn't a psychotic or delusional. I wish he's just some educated fellow getting a laugh out of us.

I think he was telling the truth in one regard, he has been homeschooled. Its obvious in his breadth of knowledge and wide ranging interests as well as his creativity. Sorry for any of you regularly educated folks but I think homeschooling is supreme.

phoenixthoth

"The belief that the earth was flat was a common superstition then, as you know."

that's all i was saying. i made no mention of why columbus sailed. at least, i don't remember saying it was just to prove the world was round or to prove that he wasn't insane. i doubt his primary goal was to measure the earth's circumferance, though. my good old american education system told me that he wanted to find a hopefully cheaper route to india. i guess that's the source of my doubt that he had a scientific goal; so, being the USA's history system as it apparently is, i guess the doubt may be unjustified.

how the greeks and others could present evidence leading one to conclude the earth was round, which i was aware of, and then many people still thinking it was flat is *somewhat* of a mystery to me.

interesting choice of word, "superstition." would you say it was a common "superstition" that the sound barrier couldn't be broken or that people will never be able to build flying machines? in ten thousand years, will they say that in 2003 it was a common superstition that time travel was impossible? will they say it was a common supersititon that exceeding the speed of light is impossible? i guess i should ask john titor. oh wait, he's only from 2036. it seems to me like what we think is rational now doesn't appear to be later all the time (eg, later it may be refered to as a superstition). it's not that it suddenly irrational, but that it wasn't rational ENOUGH.

you could pick this apart further and observe that the superstitions regarding the sound barrier and flying machines were inductive conclusions based on many, many experiments. i don't think there was a way to deductively prove that those beliefs were correct. they turned out to be incorrect, so i guess that rules out the possibility of deductively proving they were correct. on the other hand, people as far as i know are making deductive arguments regarding time travel and the speed of light barrier. so perhaps these shouldn't be considered superstitions. on the third hand, deductive arguments are based on premises. so one is forced to accept those before accepting the conclusions, of course. i'm not very inclined to accept einsteins axioms of special relativity at the moment, however. nor am i inclined to reject them. call me an einstien agnostic. that being the case, i can't be sure if the speed of light can be exceeded. i'm equally up in the air on the time travel issue.

cheers,
phoenix

PsYcHo_FiSh

rhetorical rebuttal of yours

I think believing the world is flat is a superstition don't you? There was no purpose for you to devote a whole paragraph to waxing in my terminology (even if it did sound rational, it was smacking of the juvenile). Could you possibly get your point out more succinctly? Thanks, in forward.

And I said hopefully people know the economic reasons. Obviously you do, so there was no need for you to mention that.

But if you want a source for the Greek and Muslim mathematicians try

Lost Discoveries - The Ancient Roots of Modern Science - from the Babylonians to the Maya

BY DICK TERESI

I think good old John is a fake. I also thing you are postulating to much. This thread is good for kicks but not if people are so mediocre.

One thing I noticed about everyone on this board is you are pseudoscientific babble boxes.

But here's some of 'John's' alleged stuff found on a crack pot web site:

http://www.johntitor.com/JohnsPictures.htm

Take a look at that time machine! Looks like something out of Back to the Future.

With that said, here's a website for you to peruse:

www.skeptic.com/

Embermage

Technically, since he says that he was born in 1998, wouldn't that mean that he is alive and living somewhere in... Florida... right about now? Now, if he did give us his real name, which I doubt is true, would he be traceable?


Just some random thoughts from the peanut gallery.