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Should machines replace human workers? |
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| Aug3-12, 08:11 PM | #35 |
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Should machines replace human workers?
Would I like to work for that little? Would I like to compete with robots? Would I like to give up my stuff? You are asking me these questions as if there's a choice. As more people lose jobs, more people will be willing to work for less. The cost of automation is only justified as long as people are a more expensive alternative. If people can undercut automation, they will be hired.
Your second point is completely valid and I agree. I assumed this was topic was operating under the assumption that everything should be automated, including those newly created jobs. |
| Aug3-12, 08:17 PM | #36 |
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| Aug5-12, 03:47 AM | #37 |
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Not all GDPs are created equal. A GDP made up of natural resource extraction is, to put it mildly, much less important than a GDP made up of heavy industry. let me propose instead: GDP per capita is correlated with energy accessibility per capita. The GDP/capita - energy correlation is very well known. Now what we see is energy prices going up, as they must. When the price of fueling and maintaining the machines (mostly fueled by oil) surpasses the price of maintaining the humans, then automation makes no sense regardless of wages. Then the interesting thing to ask is: do without, or get up and do the work? |
| Aug5-12, 04:03 PM | #38 |
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Suppose all jobs are done by robots, or at least enough so that the ratio of jobs:people is tending towards 0.
Does it still make sense to talk about GDP? Does it even still make sense to talk about any kind of money? For example, when I buy a loaf of bread, what am I paying for? I'm paying for 1. people to grow and harvest fields, 2. people to work some kind of mill, 3. people to work some kind of oven 4. people to distribute the bread to a shop near me, 5. people to work in the shop. If these jobs are all automated by robots what am I paying for? nothing. That being said, I'm no student of finance or economics so I wouldn't know for sure if you would still put any value in the loaf but I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't pay for something that cost nothing to produce and distribute. |
| Aug5-12, 04:28 PM | #39 |
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If breadmaking is automated by robots you're paying for the value added in terms of electricity and oil it took to make and transport the bread, maintaining the robot, the value added it took to create the robot in the first place, and the profits of the robot owner. |
| Aug5-12, 08:57 PM | #40 |
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| Aug17-12, 03:04 AM | #41 |
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Sorry to resurrect an old thread.
Machines have been replacing man in various jobs on a fairly large scale for something over 100 - 150 years now...Bascially since the advent of the steam engine allowed for widespread mechanization and industrialization.... And for this same period of time, this argument has been put forth in one form or another....to justify, population control, tariffs, protection of jobs by unions....(I recall in one case the UAW forced the Automakers to pay union dues on the robotic welders they installed)...but I digress..... The fact is that - this "Population growth vs Technology" argument has been disproven by 100 years of evidence. We use more machines today - AND the population is significantly larger than when this argument was first proposed.... |
| Aug17-12, 03:42 AM | #42 |
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I think what this discussion (I hesitate to call it an argument) boils down to is will/when will the Jevons paradox expire? Mechanisation and automation has the effect of boosting productivity per worker but due to increased demand not changed overall employment too much. So agricultural mechanisation may make X% agricultural workers redundant but jobs in the factories to build the tools go up ~X%. Obviously this isn't necessarily good for the individual who looses their job (and possibly their farm and home) because they may find factory work unfulfilling, may not be qualified/may be over qualified or might not be located close to said factory.
But the discussion still occurs because we haven't yet answered the question of what to do if at some point mechanisation/automation starts to overtake demand accross a significant section of the economy (i.e. the labour needed to satisfy the extra demand created by increased productivity and support industry does not meet the labour made redundant). Nor do we really know if that will happen or if it couldn't happen. IMO this discussion will continue indefinitely unless we do start getting to the point where there simply aren't enough jobs to go around in an economy that can (productivity wise) easily meet the demands of everyone. |
| Aug17-12, 01:33 PM | #43 |
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| Aug18-12, 06:50 PM | #44 |
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Then there are positive developments like vertical farming. Growing crops in multistory buildings. There needs to be much more work done on supplying plants nutrients so hydroponic style farming can produce more nutritious produce and grains, but there is a bright future if we devote our research in the right places.
http://science1.knoji.com/vertical-farming/ |
| Aug18-12, 09:01 PM | #45 |
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We've had threads about vertical farming. checkbox, please post on topic going forward.
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| Sep1-12, 02:51 PM | #46 |
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| Sep4-12, 02:33 AM | #47 |
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| Sep6-12, 02:19 PM | #48 |
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| Sep6-12, 02:22 PM | #49 |
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| Sep6-12, 06:27 PM | #50 |
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