Can you prove you exist?

Jameson

I've heard the phrase "I think therefore I am" as a proof of existence, but I do not find that very sound (and i think i heard that Descartes didn't exactly say that phrase).

I believe that because we have the ability to think, either by free will or not, then we have to exist. Even if we are in a "Matrix" setting or if we are all a figment of someone else's imgination. We exist in some form, maybe just not in the reality we perceive.

Jameson

Canute

It's sound as far as it goes. Descartes used it as an axiom because for him the statement could not be false. However it is impossible to demonstrate a proof of ones existence to anybody else, and in this sense, which is the scientific or western philosophical sense, 'cogito ergo sum' is a meaningless statement, since it is untestable.

Les Sleeth

As Canute points out, an external proof isn't possible. You are right too that in order to think a thinker must exist (anything that "does" or manifests is proof the thing exists). However, often this debate is about whether thinking itself is what defines existence, and that is definitely not true because if it were, then one would cease to exist if one stopped thinking. It is quite possible to learn to stop thinking, and when one does one becomes more aware of one's existence, not less aware. In terms of existence, all thinking makes one aware of is the existence of thinking.

russ_watters

I exist, the rest of you are just computer simulations created for my amusement.

Prove me wrong.

arildno

Yes, you amuse me very much, russ..
(I'm particularly impressed by that subprogram)

Microburst

"I think therefore I am" is wrong, it should be… “I believe therefore I am”....

Math Is Hard

Microburst: If I run up to you on the street and (in a fit of rage) I bite off your little finger, how much more real is it if you think I bit off your finger vs. you believe I bit off your finger?

plover

Is this something we should be worried about?

How often does this impulse come over you?

Drayakir

Technically, you coud be believing that you don't have your finger by having the right neurons turned off/stimulated, etc. You wouldn't see it, you wouldn't feel it, and you sure as hell couldn't see it.

Microburst

MIH: Believing is the “surrender” stage of the thought, where the though is now confirmed and believed to be true in your mind. If you just think and not believe you do not “actualize” ..... think about it ,..I mean believe it ....

Math Is Hard

Are you saying that it is the trust level that makes the difference? If I have a thought and I completely trust it to be an experience of an event that actually happened, then I believe it?

plover, I will not bite you. I don't like the taste of rainbirds - too dry and gamey, like duck

Microburst

Yes darling, you can simply think about not existing, but you will still exist, but you stop existing the day you truly believe you do not exist! & believe me you’ll never believe that!

Math Is Hard

you're right, Micro! it would be very tough to sell myself on that!!

Justinius

I find it quite simple to answer the question "How do I know I exist?"

Pinch yourself. Do you feel pain, or any other sensation? Wouldn't this imply that because you are able to grab your own skin, because you are able to feel pain, that you exist?

JPD

It would be particularly interesting if the finger bitten off wasn't actually there in the first place.

Sven Tingblad

Look, even if we were all computer programs, we still exist. You can get into a debate on our essence (are we programs? people? both? neither?), but it seems to me that whatever has an underlying essence exists. The whole "I think therefore I am" line could work if thinking implies an essence, which in turn implies existence.

FZ+

I'm sure it is possible to prove your own existence, if you define existence that way...