What is the Skeptics' Perspective on Debunking Conspiracy Theories?

[2012 ctt]

I am a Skeptic among other things and saw that their was a topic called "Scepticism & Debunking". I'm into debunking 9/11, 2012 dooms day, documentary films.

Decided to post up on here and maybe chat with Skeptics apart of "Scepticism & Debunking" and other people as well. I've recently had the pleasure in debunking the Thrive Movement and it's documentary.

Just wanted to say hi and possibly talk to fellow Skeptics.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Wow... Government/Corporate Conspiracy, UFOs, and Zero Point energy all rolled up together.

 

[QuarkCharmer]

Wow... Government/Corporate Conspiracy, UFOs, and Zero Point energy all rolled up together.

Haha yeah. I googled the thrive movement, and the search preview read:

THRIVE is an unconventional documentary that lifts the veil on what's REALLY going on in our world by following the money upstream

It's remotely legitimate sounding, so I gave it a click and then BAM! There in the middle of their homepage is a video still of a guy telling some other guy about a "mysterious code" he found in nature that "the ancients" have known about for centuries! Naturally, they are having this conversation in front of some sort of semi-transparent cylindrical shell surrounded by a magnetic field looking purple thing that can fly...

I don't understand how anyone could watch that video and take it seriously.

 

[narrator]

Haha yeah. I googled the thrive movement...

I googled it too. Only thing I like about the site is the cool menu animation at the bottom of the page.

 

[nobahar]

I am a Skeptic among other things...

Can you be a professional skeptic? I'm all for de omnibus dubitandum, but...
Also, I like the capitalisation on skeptic.

 

[2012 ctt]

Hey guys someone got upset for linking to websites they thought I was trying to advertise. I understand physics people seek glory from the profession and nowadays have to do a song and dance to get money but that is not my intent. I receive no money from the Thrive movement in debunking them, and I receive no money from the skeptic project (which is exclusive membership) in post their link and it definitely was not a attempt to spam.

to the physics people who have given me the two infraction in less than 1 day and deleted the links in my post; stop being glory hounds, just because i link to a outside sites doesn't mean I gain anything from it. The debunking blog of the thrive movement is done by a historian and lawyer and you even deleted that link too...

Can you be a professional skeptic? I'm all for de omnibus dubitandum, but...
Also, I like the capitalisation on skeptic.

Yeah I'm a Professional Skeptic LOL. I type on a iphone while in class and factored in that I'm not to bothered by spelng and gammer I just get it done.

I'm not sure what "de omnibus dubitandum"? Is that Chinese?The Thrive Movement has adopted just about every conspiracy theory possible when making this documentary. The documentary reminded me of watching a professional done info commercial.

 

[micromass]

to the physics people who have given me the two infraction in less than 1 day and deleted the links in my post; stop being glory hounds, just because i link to a outside sites doesn't mean I gain anything from it.

Maybe read the rules first: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=414380

 

[Evo]

Hey guys someone got upset for linking to websites they thought I was trying to advertise. I understand physics people seek glory from the profession and nowadays have to do a song and dance to get money but that is not my intent. I receive no money from the Thrive movement in debunking them, and I receive no money from the skeptic project (which is exclusive membership) in post their link and it definitely was not a attempt to spam.

to the physics people who have given me the two infraction in less than 1 day and deleted the links in my post; stop being glory hounds, just because i link to a outside sites doesn't mean I gain anything from it. The debunking blog of the thrive movement is done by a historian and lawyer and you even deleted that link too...



Yeah I'm a Professional Skeptic LOL. I type on a iphone while in class and factored in that I'm not to bothered by spelng and gammer I just get it done.

I'm not sure what "de omnibus dubitandum"? Is that Chinese?


The Thrive Movement has adopted just about every conspiracy theory possible when making this documentary. The documentary reminded me of watching a professional done info commercial.

Your mistake was posting links to your website (not allowed). Then posting links to the crackpot site through a very questionable link to boot. (both have been deleted)

If you had just posted that you thought XYZ movie was crackpot and wanted to know if anyone else had heard of it, that would have been ok.

You must read the rules before you post here.

 

[2012 ctt]

Maybe read the rules first: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=414380

I've read the rules, seem like good rules.

Your mistake was posting links to your website (not allowed). Then posting links to the crackpot site through a very questionable link to boot. (both have been deleted)

If you had just posted that you thought XYZ movie was crackpot and wanted to know if anyone else had heard of it, that would have been ok.

You must read the rules before you post here.

Both links are not my website. I've seen links going to crackpot websites on this site for years now.

Off topic but have you criteria developed for determining what is a crackpot website?

 

[micromass]

I've read the rules, seem like good rules.

Then you obviously read this:

Linking to obviously "crank" or "crackpot" sites is prohibited.

Both links are not my website. I've seen links going to crackpot websites on this site for years now.

Report them. They are not allowed.

Off topic but have you criteria developed for determining what is a crackpot website?

It is again specified in the rules:

It is against our Posting Guidelines to discuss, in the PF forums or in blogs, new or non-mainstream theories or ideas that have not been published in professional peer-reviewed journals or are not part of current professional mainstream scientific discussion.

 

[2012 ctt]

Then you obviously read this:





Report them. They are not allowed.



It is again specified in the rules:

I think you kind of cherry picked the things you were going to answer.

I've seen links going to crackpot websites on this site for years now.

How about answering that the one sentence you avoided? need examples I can find some?

Report them. They are not allowed.

Not sure what that means?

It is against our Posting Guidelines to discuss, in the PF forums or in blogs, new or non-mainstream theories or ideas that have not been published in professional peer-reviewed journals or are not part of current professional mainstream scientific discussion.

First I addressed specific criteria to another person. Second those are not specific criteria, criteria is defined as "a standard on which a judgment or decision may be based". I'm looking for a specific list much like a criteria for examining if something is a cult that is easy to follow and less subjective. The rules don't have such a criteria list for what it says is "crackpottery" .

 

[Evo]

Both links are not my website.

Your original post started with

I am with www.xxx website

, then your next post you put the name and link in your signature.

I've seen links going to crackpot websites on this site for years now.

Currently we delete links to crackpot sites.

Off topic but have you criteria developed for determining what is a crackpot website?

This is a good start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crank_(person)#Common_characteristics_of_cranks

 

[micromass]

I think you kind of cherry picked the things you were going to answer.

I just quoted the rules that you agreed to.

How about answering that the one sentence you avoided? need examples I can find some?

No, do not post examples. It is not allowed. Please find the examples and report them. A mentor will delete the link.

 

[Borek]

Not sure what that means?

If you see post with a dubious link (or anything else that is against forums rules - crackpot statement, insults and so on) click on the Report button (left to the post text, below user name) and write what bothers you about the post. Reports are visible to Mentors and we can react. As much as we try we can't read everything so we can miss something.

 

[2012 ctt]

Your original post started with , then your next post you put the name and link in your signature.

Currently we delete links to crackpot sites.

This is a good start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crank_(person)#Common_characteristics_of_cranks

Just because I put a link in my profile doesn't mean it's my website. I happen to be a member of the website much like I'm a member of this website that doesn't mean I own the website or have control over the website or this website.

I don't think physicsforums admins/staff delete all links to crackpot website and crackpot articles in my opinion which is based on years of being on this site.

Currently we delete links to crackpot sites.

I understand and agree with that but their isn't much of a criteria on physicsforums site that a crackpottery website would have to be met that is less subjective; In that a particular site if put under the scope of this particular criteria would fall in this case under a crackpottery website category.

If I were to go about debunking for example the thrive movement website I think it's kind of silly how I would not be able to post up the link to the website of where I originally got the information from to show proof. I think people with strong critical thinking skills should know enough to judge in this case a website that is not credible and if not it is of their own fault. I agree that if I posted something similar in tone as in what I posted in the "Scepticism & Debunking" topic in a math or physics category that would be unfounded and I would probably deserve a boot or be detained if doing so. In my opinion I don't think a mod/admins should waste their time trying to regulate a site in this manner unless under specific categories that for example fall under math and science. Of course it's not my site so I must abide by the rules or attempt to and make corrections as needed.

Thank you for the wikipedia link I'll take a look at it. reading this wikipedia already has made me want to reevaluate and take another look at the term cranks. I typically do not use the term crank or troll because I do not believe they do not address the issue. However I use terms like lack of critical thinking, not using or applying the scientific method, no credible academic peer reviewing, no model, not based on science, a lot. I try to address the material so people or individual know exactly where I am coming from.

I just quoted the rules that you agreed to.No, do not post examples. It is not allowed. Please find the examples and report them. A mentor will delete the link.

No problem. If someone has a problem about something I usually if not always work with them and I always try to follow the rules.

If you see post with a dubious link (or anything else that is against forums rules - crackpot statement, insults and so on) click on the Report button (left to the post text, below user name) and write what bothers you about the post. Reports are visible to Mentors and we can react. As much as we try we can't read everything so we can miss something.

I agree, I probably won't use the button though unless it's by a spam bot or the topic is really out there.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

If I were to go about debunking for example the thrive movement website I think it's kind of silly how I would not be able to post up the link to the website of where I originally got the information from to show proof. I think people with strong critical thinking skills should know enough to judge in this case a website that is not credible and if not it is of their own fault

There are several reasons to ban linking to crackpot websites, the best of which is to not create an avenue for increasing traffic to that website. If you wish to debunk movement X and you feel it is required link to things like news reports or a wikipedia page if they have one. I'll reiterate what others have said; whilst these are the rules there are only 20 mentors who (strange as it may seem) have lives outside of PF, it is conceivable that some links and other breaches of the rules go unnoticed. If you have examples (as you have claimed) of crackpot links on the site please report them so that they can be dealt with.

 

[2012 ctt]

There are several reasons to ban linking to crackpot websites, the best of which is to not create an avenue for increasing traffic to that website. If you wish to debunk movement X and you feel it is required link to things like news reports or a wikipedia page if they have one. I'll reiterate what others have said; whilst these are the rules there are only 20 mentors who (strange as it may seem) have lives outside of PF, it is conceivable that some links and other breaches of the rules go unnoticed. If you have examples (as you have claimed) of crackpot links on the site please report them so that they can be dealt with.

I think that's pretty obvious though. If someone posts a thrive movement link on this site to the thrive site then that site may get hits from physicsforums.com members. However I don't see a problem with it and I'll throw a statement back "I think people with strong critical thinking skills should know enough to judge in this case a website that is not credible and if not it is of their own fault". So what if the site gets views from your site why should that matter? Is their a correlation from clicking a link on this site and what a person believes?

Your thought process is it to eliminate choice by user by eliminating websites deemed in lose terms as crackpottery. Anyways I wasn't addressing you when I said that I was addressing another and and it was just my opinion. I will abide by the rules of the site and correct and work with people who have problems.

If you have examples (as you have claimed) of crackpot links on the site please report them so that they can be dealt with.

As I responded above, "I probably won't use the button though unless it's by a spam bot or the topic is really out there.". So anything that is obvious spam or a topic that's really out there I'll report but I haven't seen any for some time that needed reported.

 

[Evo]

This is pointless.