What's the most complicated circuit you know?

f95toli

Quote by fbs7

That's a fair point, but what's the function of a circuit that is chaotic and can't be modeled or predicted? Besides generating a chaotic and unpredictable signal, that is?

Some circuits have "regions" in their parameter space where they are chaotic and very useful (unless you want to for example generate noise), but might exhibit predictable (using numerical methods) behaviour elsewhere.
Certain types of parametric amplifiers would presumably be an example, especially bifurcation amplifiers.

Kholdstare

Quote by f95toli

Some circuits have "regions" in their parameter space where they are chaotic and very useful (unless you want to for example generate noise), but might exhibit predictable (using numerical methods) behaviour elsewhere.
Certain types of parametric amplifiers would presumably be an example, especially bifurcation amplifiers.

Yeah! But, does not the nonlinearity of the amplifier belong to the nonlinearity of a single device?

Physineer

Quote by fbs7

That's a fair point, but what's the function of a circuit that is chaotic and can't be modeled or predicted? Besides generating a chaotic and unpredictable signal, that is?

Encryption.

Pass a signal through a chaotic circuit and as long as the inverse chaotic behavior can by synthesized (like the key) the original signal can be recovered. Research has found chaotic circuits with inverses.

Mike_In_Plano

The regenerative receiver? That's an amazingly subtle circuit. And just think, Armstrong did it as a hobby and without benefit of an oscilloscope!

Mike_In_Plano

As an exercise to the student, generate and solve the equations for the following device (details on page 10) :-)'

Mike

http://www.analog.com/static/importe...eets/AD736.pdf

Kholdstare

Quote by Mike_In_Plano

The regenerative receiver? That's an amazingly subtle circuit. And just think, Armstrong did it as a hobby and without benefit of an oscilloscope!

The more I hear about E. H. Armstrong, he earns my respect. Probably the most excellent radio engineer of his time. Yet he had to commit suicide from the legal tussle with RCA.

Here's one regenerative receiver:
http://www.techlib.com/electronics/regen.html

Kholdstare

Quote by Mike_In_Plano

As an exercise to the student, generate and solve the equations for the following device (details on page 10) :-)'

Mike

http://www.analog.com/static/importe...eets/AD736.pdf

I accept your challenge Mike, but give me one whole day. Just to be sure I make no mistake. hahaha

jim hardy

Quote by Kholdstare

The more I hear about E. H. Armstrong, he earns my respect. Probably the most excellent radio engineer of his time. Yet he had to commit suicide from the legal tussle with RCA.

Here's one regenerative receiver:
http://www.techlib.com/electronics/regen.html

keep eyes peeled in junkshops. sometimes you run across one of Armstrong's old console radios with FM band down around 40mhz.

RCA got FCC to lay television band right on top of him wiping him out.
interesting, not too unlike the GPS- LTE cellphone haggle going on today.

DragonPetter

Quote by jim hardy

i might have physical one laying amongst my junk, and i have two books on them

newer book is 1954 by Willaim A Geyger, "Magnetic Amplifier Circuits"

older has sumberged amid the chaos.... it was around 1940

to my considerable surprise they are making a comeback as feedback elements in switching power supplies !
to me they were the best for ultra-reliable critical low frequency applications like our emergency diesel voltage regulators. ( never trust a computer with anything important )

they still defy precise mathematical analysis because of the nonlinearity of magnetics.

here's a nostalgic writeup..

http://www.themeasuringsystemofthego...amplifiers.pdf

That's pretty cool, I had no idea they exist. Is this similar to how the core of AC motors sometimes have "core windings" on them to control the amount of flux into the motor windings, and therefore the speed of the motor?

nsaspook

The main clock recovery and sync circuit on this device. http://www.jproc.ca/crypto/kwr37.html
The circuit diagrams are still classified secret. Everything was custom hand-made with special boards or cards to generate special test signals to trace bad boards or modules.

Former Navy crypto tech 1970s.

sophiecentaur

Quote by fbs7

By that I mean a circuit that can't be broken into separate blocks that... err... do something by themselves.

. . . . . .

For that I nominate the cubic-function generator by Cipriani and Takeshian from Conexant:

Link to patent

Anything else can beat that?

I might suggest the Internet?

Kholdstare

Quote by sophiecentaur

I might suggest the Internet?

Does not function as a single irreducible block.

jim hardy

""I might suggest the Internet?""

wait'll it becomes sentient. we'll need a whole new field of psychology.

sophiecentaur

Quote by Kholdstare

Does not function as a single irreducible block.

When you say it's not irreducible, could you not just say it is built with a high level of redundancy and fault tolerance? Could it not be looked upon as an entity?

Quote by jim hardy

""I might suggest the Internet?""

wait'll it becomes sentient. we'll need a whole new field of psychology.

Isn't is 'sentient" already (with the help of all its acolites)?

jim hardy

Isn't is 'sentient" already (with the help of all its acolites)?

now that you ask, it does seem so. Milton's Beezlebub ?

Kholdstare

Quote by Mike_In_Plano

As an exercise to the student, generate and solve the equations for the following device (details on page 10) :-)'

Mike

http://www.analog.com/static/importe...eets/AD736.pdf

Here's the solution Mike. I was late as I was not finding time to update it from rough to fair.

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Mike_In_Plano	The regenerative receiver? That's an amazingly subtle circuit. And just think, Armstrong did it as a hobby and without benefit of an oscilloscope!

nsaspook	The main clock recovery and sync circuit on this device. http://www.jproc.ca/crypto/kwr37.html The circuit diagrams are still classified secret. Everything was custom hand-made with special boards or cards to generate special test signals to trace bad boards or modules. Former Navy crypto tech 1970s.

jim hardy Recognitions: Gold Member Science Advisor	""I might suggest the Internet?"" wait'll it becomes sentient. we'll need a whole new field of psychology.