What is the Volga Shipyard Orlyonok and why is there not more interest in it?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the Volga Shipyard Orlyonok and the broader context of large transport vehicles, including aircraft and ground-effect vehicles. Participants explore the feasibility, historical context, and potential applications of such technologies, particularly in relation to the Ekranoplan and the Antonov An-225.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants discuss the economic feasibility of developing larger aircraft like the An-225, questioning the potential benefits versus costs involved.
  • There are suggestions that amphibious planes and ground-effect vehicles could be more efficient alternatives for transport, with claims about their potential weight capacity and operational efficiency.
  • One participant compares the Ekranoplan to the "Spruce Goose," suggesting it is a smaller version of that concept.
  • Historical context is provided regarding the Ekranoplan's development in the Soviet Union, including its military applications and capabilities.
  • Concerns are raised about the lack of interest in the Orlyonok, with speculation that political biases may influence perceptions of "commy tech." Some participants express surprise that the Volga Shipyard has not garnered more attention for potential applications in regions like the Great Lakes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the viability and potential of large transport vehicles, with no consensus on the reasons for the lack of interest in the Orlyonok or the future of such technologies.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the speculative nature of claims regarding economic feasibility and the historical context of Soviet technologies, which may not fully account for current market conditions or technological advancements.

Ivan Seeking
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Antonov An-225 "Mriya" is the world's largest aircraft. When it was built, it surpassed any airliner built before by 50%. It was designed for the transportation of the Russian Space Shuttle "Buran" by the Antonov Design Bureau (HQ in Kiev, Ukraine), which already had built good and large cargo aircraft such as the Antonov An-124 "Ruslan". The basic configuration of the An-225 is the same as the An-124, except the An-225 is longer, has no rear ramp/door assembly, and incorporates a 32-wheel landing gear system (two nose and fourteen main wheel bogies, seven per side, each with two wheels).

...Max. take off weight -- 600000kg
...Wingspan 290 ft (88.4m), length -- 84,00m [continued with photos]
http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=389
 
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UR-82060 (cn 13102) Leaving Palma after her 2nd visit, using more than 3000 meters of the rwy

That's longer than many towns!
 
I believe the feasibility of making such enormous aircraft lies primarily in the economy. With today's progress it shouldn't be structurally impossible to double the AN-225's size in a matter of, say, 5 years, but the question is what you would gain from such an aircraft. Would it make up for the costs of development, production, increasing runway lenghts and such. I think that's why we don't see AN-225's everywhere, and also why the A380 wasn't ready 10 years ago.
 
gschjetne said:
... increasing runway lenghts and such.
For this reason alone, I think amphibious planes need to make a comeback - or maybe even ground-effect planes. And a ground-effect plane could transport 10x the weight at 3/4 the speed and twice(or more) the $ per pound mile efficiency of a normal plane.
 
It's just a copy of the "Spruce Goose" with smaller wings :biggrin:
 
The Russian Ekranoplan

russ_watters said:
For this reason alone, I think amphibious planes need to make a comeback - or maybe even ground-effect planes. And a ground-effect plane could transport 10x the weight at 3/4 the speed and twice(or more) the $ per pound mile efficiency of a normal plane.

Since I happen to have a good link handy...
The Russian Ekranoplan looks like an aircraft but it only flies a few metres above water. Translated the Russian name Ekranoplan means sea skimmer and this is exactly what the Ekranoplan does. The Ekranoplan is what is known as a Ground Effect Vehicle, it operates on the principle of wing in ground effect, where the air gap between a wing and the ground is small enough for the air to be compressed.

Born out of the Soviet Unions Central Hydrofoil Design Bureau it was developed by their chief designer Rostislav Alekseev. Several different Ekranoplan's were developed from 1961 to 1990. Since the fall of the Soviet Union many of the design team from the CHDB have formed a new company with plans to develop new craft for passenger and cargo usage. Also 11 small 5 passenger craft were constructed between 1995 and 1997, they were used in trial commercial operation in USA and the Bahamas...

...The largest Ekranoplan called the KM was built in 1967, it was dubbed the Caspian Sea Monster after the sea it was on when first seen by the west. It was almost twice the length of a Boeing 777-200 but as with all Ground Effect Craft it need only half the wingspan. At over 100 m long, weighing 540 tons fully loaded, the KM could travel over 400 km/h mere meters above the surface of the water. Once moving at speed, the Ekranoplan was no longer in contact with the water, and could move over ice, snow, or level land with equal ease.

The important design principle is that the wing lift reduces the further above the surface of land or sea that the ekranoplan "flies". Thus its dynamically stable in the vertical dimension.

These craft were originally developed by the Soviet Union as very high-speed (several hundred km/hour) military transports, and were mostly based on the shores of the Caspian Sea and Black Sea. The largest
could transport over 100 tonnes of cargo. [continued]
http://www.gizmohighway.com/transport/ekranoplan.htm
 
I've seen video of that plane. What a beast. Flying a few feet above the water makes that thing look scary to say the least. I can't remember the reasons why they were shelved.
 
Although I am no historian I'd say that it's the same with all other great USSR-developed technologies: the technocrats gets big funding for their revolutioning projects, but there is no resources to put it into action, so it just sits rotting somewhere.

Actually it's strange there hasn't been interest in the Orlyonok, since the Volga shipyard offers to build them. I can imagine they would be great on the great lakes (Superior, Eirie, Michigan, etc.).
Just wonder if some Americans still got the Trumann bug in their heads, refusing to go near "commy tech".

Volga Shipyard Orlyonok
 
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