Discussion Overview
The discussion centers on the distinction between "to cause" and "to make" in the context of propositions and their truth values, particularly in relation to logical fatalism and free will. Participants explore the implications of these terms in philosophical arguments about truth and causation.
Discussion Character
- Debate/contested
- Conceptual clarification
- Exploratory
Main Points Raised
- Some participants assert that a proposition's truth is established by an event occurring, suggesting that the event "makes" the proposition true rather than "causing" it to be true.
- Others question whether logical fatalism claims that the truth of a proposition causes its manifestation in reality, suggesting that this interpretation may misrepresent the argument.
- A participant expresses confusion over the difference between making and causing, indicating a lack of clarity in the argument being presented.
- Another participant emphasizes that stating a proposition does not make it true, arguing that truth is determined through empirical investigation.
- One participant provides examples involving John Lennon’s death to illustrate that true statements do not cause the events they describe.
- Some participants agree that making a true statement does not cause the event it describes, but they seek clarification on what position is being argued against.
- A later reply suggests that the author confuses the instance of a proposition with the proposition itself.
- One participant critiques the argument, stating that it does not adequately support the thesis of free will, while another participant finds the author's other arguments to be acceptable.
- Another participant argues that the author needs to demonstrate that the true proposition itself does not determine the event it represents, regardless of any statement made about it.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants express differing views on the implications of the distinction between "to cause" and "to make," with some agreeing on the lack of causation in the relationship between propositions and events, while others challenge the clarity and strength of the arguments presented.
Contextual Notes
Participants highlight the need for clearer definitions and distinctions between propositions and their truth values, as well as the implications for discussions on free will and determinism.
