A respectable study of Paraphysics


by Lacy33
Tags: paraphysics, respectable, study
Lacy33
Lacy33 is offline
#1
Dec30-04, 12:43 PM
P: 335
There are serious scientists working in advancing this field, but they are still not being taken seriously by the modern theoretical/experimental scientists who could possibly use some of this information in their specialty.
Attempting to form a connection between the abstract concepts of modern scientific teams and creative/intuitive/prescient thinkers in assisting in the advancement of viable models current in the labs and universities. We need to work together as any team to produce something respectable and truly useful. We can work together in a humble and considerate way that will result in the same success that many are enjoying in the universities and labs, even if our field of question take us out on the fringe. That's the exciting part.
Please see profile.
Thank you and A very Happy, Heathy, Productive, New Year!
Suzanne Elizabeth Seitz
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malai5
malai5 is offline
#2
Dec31-04, 07:05 AM
P: 10
Quote Quote by Shoshana
There are serious scientists working in advancing this field, but they are still not being taken seriously by the modern theoretical/experimental scientists who could possibly use some of this information in their specialty.
Attempting to form a connection between the abstract concepts of modern scientific teams and creative/intuitive/prescient thinkers in assisting in the advancement of viable models current in the labs and universities. We need to work together as any team to produce something respectable and truly useful. We can work together in a humble and considerate way that will result in the same success that many are enjoying in the universities and labs, even if our field of question take us out on the fringe. That's the exciting part.
Please see profile.
Thank you and A very Happy, Heathy, Productive, New Year!
Suzanne Elizabeth Seitz
Hi Shoshana

We understand what you are saying, because, as practising Clairvoyants (there are 3 of us in our little research group) we are expected to fit our abilities into the axioms and rules of 3d Scientific thinking.
Well, as you know and we know, it doesn't work that way. Everything that we can access, we are meant to access, whether it be for an individual, or other.
The Universal Mind works to it's own agenda as far as the bigger picture is concerned and this has nothing to do with our wants and all to do with what is needed, for the best possible outcome, for ALL concerned, even that which we cannot see.
There is a growing group of Scientists who are starting to understand that the Universe does not work in absolutes, "Black" and "White" concepts, which Science traditionally requires, but rather seek the way that is in the "Grey" area.
It is a mindset change that is required and traditionally Science is slow to change, but it is starting to do this.
QM, is putting "foxes" in many "chicken sheds" and so is the exploration of the Psy abilities of the Human entity.

I will enclose one of our received articles for you to contemplate.

Cheers

Malai5ALIEN/ESP
You can't have one without the other
As simple as that




Who do you think you are?
Where do you think you come from?
How do you think that you contact your higher selves?
What makes it possible to have Extra Sensory Perceptions?


Do you think for one moment that earth is the be all and end all of all civilizations that are part of the greater universe. We see the mundane attempts made to grasp what your limited knowledge gives you. We see the ones who will go out of their way to avoid issues like the plague, who will skirt around, who will dismiss what they do not know, who put everything they know down to their learned ways, who pull out their earthly egos to put across to the masses a bent view of something they know nothing about. For if they truly admitted to themselves, instead of fooling themselves, that, they DONíT know, cannot begin to fathom what is beyond their normal thinking process, they MIGHT actually begin to learn something which IS beyond their capability.

You look at yourselves; you see the outside. You see the hologramatic covering that covers you. You see all nations of the world in the same hologramatic way. What are humans? You perceive yourself, as you want yourself to be. To US, you are a form, just another form. That form in the true sense of the word is as Alien as the Aliens you see portrayed in earthly ways. How do you think the human/aliens of your earth are capable of Extra Sensory Perceptions if they were not part of the Alien race? We would tell you it could not happen. You can only contact what is already of you. There is no great mystery to it. Some choose to reel in their extraordinary gifts. Some choose not to do so. All part of the G.O.D Grand Order of Design, Gift of Design. The Ones who deny their connection (and we will tell you that you all have it) do so for their lessons in that life. So, you can debate until the cows come home what you want to believe to be, or not to be, but to see yourself as you really are, can you do that, that is the question

This is So!

M.A.M.
Lacy33
Lacy33 is offline
#3
Dec31-04, 08:01 AM
P: 335
Quote Quote by malai5
Hi Shoshana

There is a growing group of Scientists who are starting to understand that the Universe does not work in absolutes, "Black" and "White" concepts, which Science traditionally requires, but rather seek the way that is in the "Grey" area.
It is a mindset change that is required and traditionally Science is slow to change, but it is starting to do this.
QM, is putting "foxes" in many "chicken sheds" and so is the exploration of the Psy abilities of the Human entity.

I will enclose one of our received articles for you to contemplate.

Cheers

Malai5ALIEN/ESP
You can't have one without the other
As simple as that

Who do you think you are?
Where do you think you come from?
How do you think that you contact your higher selves?
What makes it possible to have Extra Sensory Perceptions?
M.A.M.
Dear Malai5,
What a nice surprize to receive such a positive response from the Meta/Parphysical Community.
Your article is brave and far reaching.
If these steps to question are not taken we will surely stay in the dark.
We have not explored some of the points you address in your statement. But I believe they are worth looking into.
How would you suggest we as groups join in an effort to investigate them and ofther issues further?
I will go now to your website.
Feel free to contact me thought the contact information made available on my public profile.
Thank you again for responding.
And a Very Happy, Heathy, Productive New Year to you and your Team.
Suzanne Elizabeth Sitz, SIP

TENYEARS
TENYEARS is offline
#4
Dec31-04, 09:00 PM
P: 495

A respectable study of Paraphysics


Shoshana, I was thinking of posting something like that over a year ago but did not. You speak of ego but is that not what happens. A band wagon of fools jump on take the credit and run with no understanding, no intent for the embetterment of human kind. To be attempted to be used for rediculous purposes which lesser ideals invent. The us goverentment used people in the cold war to locate nulcear facilities in the USSR. What a joke. Visions cannot be created at will, well for the most part. There is a methodology in which I believe it could be proved. First you take visions which have already happened. You must start here. Then you must do something else with that which would be prove them with some degree of scientific certainty. I believe this is possible with a series of tests. Once there is a breaking of that barrier it will begin. I have had a vision concerning the proving of the greater reality and a tower forming around the vine which was my experience. When doubt came there was an explosion and the vine shot upward. A stone tower shot up around the vine and it was recogized as a reality. People went to the tower to visit the vine and yet they did not understand. I was greatly disappointed. This will become truth. Visions are never wrong for they are a reflection of reality. This is the truth. We will see. Maybe it is time, maybe not. I have seen more than visions. It is not the frequency or the intensity which counts with visions. It is indeed their reality and nothing more. The faith of a mustard seed is not faith. It is the experience of a mustard seed, hell of one atom of a mustard seed. For that would indeed be enough.
Lacy33
Lacy33 is offline
#5
Jan1-05, 11:21 AM
P: 335
Physicsforums.com is an excellent place to obtain guidance with specific questions in math and science, if the questions are well stated.

Many of us consider this opportunity a tremendous privilege to access professionals who give so unselfishly of their time and expertise.

The field of Paraphysics is currently being redefined by people who would like to use some of the information already in the field and investigate areas still underdeveloped in an attempt to apply scientific method to these works in progress.

The many side subjects that have fallen in under the heading of Paraphysics like ghost hunting and occult practices are the types of subjects that we are in agreement with together with the mainstream science community in objecting to.

We do not mind if ideas come out of left field as long as the researcher is willing to securely attach the math and science to them.
We have seen in our efforts to date, reseachers begin with fully developed models and after group review find ways to work their ideas into the study of geomagnetic field reversal and problems in gravity...only as a start.

Three of our researcher have returned to the university to increase skills in math and learn of the advances in physics.

We are serious about using the seasoned imagination of creative thinker to advance science. BUT NOT WITHOUT THE SCIENCE.
Thank you,
Suzanne Elizabeth Seitz
SIP
phoenixthoth
phoenixthoth is offline
#6
Jan1-05, 08:29 PM
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P: 1,572
Tenyears, what about this. I'm not trying to be a pest; this thought pesters me!

Suppose I have a vision of getting into a car accident.

Consequently, I never put one atom of my body in a car again.

I never get into a car accident.

The vision was in error?

It seems to me that a basic tenent of "visions" is that
either they stem from a thought, emotion, or perception; these are what I call "fake" visions... Or they come without warning and are not precipitated by a thought (like if I'm daydreaming about cars before a "vision" of a car accident comes which is really the product of fear/paranoia), emotion, or perception (like if I see a car accident I then have an image of myself getting into a car accident). Another basic tenent of visions is that they only tell the future, if they're about the future, in the sense that they're about the natural future and not the altered future. And so, the vision above was either a product of fear (or something) or forsight of the natural future. When the choice was made to never set foot in a car, then the future becomes the altered future; it is altered by the choice to avoid the natural future, the future which would be if no one changes their mind.
Janitor
Janitor is offline
#7
Jan1-05, 08:39 PM
Sci Advisor
P: 1,190
If paraphysics includes what they call "remote viewing," I would be happy to provide some tests for anybody claiming to have such abilities.

INQUIRE WITHIN
phoenixthoth
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#8
Jan1-05, 08:42 PM
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If I could do remote viewing, I would neither tell anyone nor would want to prove it to Joe Sixpack.
Janitor
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#9
Jan1-05, 08:44 PM
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P: 1,190
Quote Quote by phoenixthoth
If I could do remote viewing, I would neither tell anyone nor would want to prove it to Joe Sixpack.

And would Pam Anderson be able to keep anything secret from you?

Lacy33
Lacy33 is offline
#10
Jan2-05, 05:33 AM
P: 335
Quote Quote by Janitor
If paraphysics includes what they call "remote viewing," I would be happy to provide some tests for anybody claiming to have such abilities.

INQUIRE WITHIN
In some Paraphysics labs "remote viewing" is an area of investigation.

We however do not invest time in it.
Nor do I have any personal comment on it.

If you are interested in challenging the scientists who are working on "remote viewing" you might find professionals at the Society for Scientific Exploration.
http://www.scientificexploration.org/council.php

We are more concerned with attaching our efforts to works being done in the Universities that are more traditionally science based.

We are at the greatest disadvantage because we choose to explore possibilities with "creative non-science professionals", so we are safer not to wander too far from the shelter of established scientists.

Added to that our reseachers are more inclined to investigate the more abstract questions about vacuum states and the nature of boundary conditions that would allow for an extension of the models in astroparticle physics to unify and reveal a more relaxed understanding that could indeed take us to more "complexed dimensions"(sd01g) Dimensions thread.

Finally, I was prepared to ask you of some points on science as you are a Physicsforums "Science Advisor" but your public profile states that you have not been to University and "nothing you say should be taken seriously".

What are the qualification for a person to be a Science Advisor on Physicsforums as many of the mentors and advisors are truly brilliant science professionals who give so selflessly the benefit of their expertise?

Thank you for your time.
Suzanne Elizabeth Seitz
Lacy33
Lacy33 is offline
#11
Jan2-05, 06:03 AM
P: 335
Quote Quote by phoenixthoth
Tenyears, what about this.
It is noted in your Public Profile that you are interested in Religion and Metaphysics.
I am interested in why you would not consider a vision to possibly be of a more mystical nature that could still be somewhat consistent with science?

I sense you are trying to understand TENYEARS vision from a psychological background with out the benefit of the medical component.
Are you sure psychology really applies to the vision of TENYEARS as I am not sure they have mentioned exactly what the vision is.

Of course there is a population who have altered perceptions that should be treated by the medical community, but should the subject of visions be limited to mental illness alone?

In the study of metaphysics or Kabbalah one will find reference to a consciousness that wonders into a hyper dimension where time is non existent hence giving access to information of things that have and will happen that the receiver was not previously aware of.

The nature of these visions are at best confounding and the receiver is most times not aware of the details until they find themselves actually experiencing the event and then it flashes back on them like a memory.

Thank you for your interest.

Suzanne Elizabeth Seitz
Janitor
Janitor is offline
#12
Jan2-05, 11:44 AM
Sci Advisor
P: 1,190
Quote Quote by Shoshana
... Finally, I was prepared to ask you of some points on science as you are a Physicsforums "Science Advisor" but your public profile states that you have not been to University and "nothing you say should be taken seriously".

What are the qualification for a person to be a Science Advisor on Physicsforums as many of the mentors and advisors are truly brilliant science professionals who give so selflessly the benefit of their expertise? ...
I can clear that up. Some threads were started at PF with 10 or more quiz questions on various particular branches of science. I took a couple of them and did well. Days or weeks later, the "Science Advisor" tag showed up under some member names. (Actually it was originally something along the lines of "Science Expert," but it later got changed for all to "Science Advisor.") So all that means in my case is I have done enough reading on my own to do well on certain kinds of quizzes; nothing more should be read into it. I truly do not ask anybody to take me seriously, though I think at times I am able to offer some helpful advice on certain issues that people have in math or physics. I cheerfully admit an almost complete ignorance of areas like string theory and biology.

I am curious about where you stand on what is called 'New Age' religion. Do you put credence in things like palm reading, iridology, and pyramid power?
Lacy33
Lacy33 is offline
#13
Jan2-05, 02:06 PM
P: 335
Quote Quote by Janitor
I can clear that up. Some threads were started at PF with 10 or more quiz questions on various particular branches of science.

I cheerfully admit an almost complete ignorance of areas like string theory and biology.

I am curious about where you stand on what is called 'New Age' religion. Do you put credence in things like palm reading, iridology, and pyramid power?
Hello Janitor,
Thank you for defining the status of Science Advisor on physicsforums.
With that said , I should admit that its a good thing physicsforums tests not for just conversing!!

It is polite to thank you for asking where I stand on the subjects mentioned above, but this will undoubtable make me look about as dumb as I can.

Palm Reading is something I have no interest in hence no scholarly opinion if it would merit one in final analysis.
Pyramid and iridology might have some strong historical value.
I am not read up on either to give an opinion, but my feeling is that if they were an ancient healing technique, much of the original wisdom may be lost in translation and time.

New Age Religion is something I have looked into and moved through swiftly.
I believe first and foremost..everyone according to their understanding. Meaning that we all try different things on our way to understanding.

I am a real try everything person, but I am easy to let things go if they do not work and am willing to bring them back if they seem to be necessary at another time.
Seems as if life is more like a puzzle that give us pieces to fit in at the right time.
We may be holding a piece for a whole lifetime and only in our last moments in life do we see where it fits.

No I am not a New Ager, but I feel is yields some good things.

And You? How do you feel about these things?

And you might contact me by other ways if this is not appropriate for phyiscsforums. I don't know.
Best
Suzanne
Janitor
Janitor is offline
#14
Jan2-05, 02:25 PM
Sci Advisor
P: 1,190
Quote Quote by Shoshana
... How do you feel about these things?...
Open-mindedness is usually considered a virtue, and you are clearly more open-minded than I, so probably that speaks well for you.

I attribute my closed-minded tendencies that I have had since my teen years to the feeling of having been foolish enough to uncritically swallow the religious doctrine that was spoon-fed to me in my childhood. Coming to realize, one after the other, that Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and personal deities are not objectively real despite seemingly-credible people having fervently witnessed them to me made me swear that I wouldn't fall for the same old stuff again.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
phoenixthoth
phoenixthoth is offline
#15
Jan2-05, 02:32 PM
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Quote Quote by Shoshana
It is noted in your Public Profile that you are interested in Religion and Metaphysics.
I am interested in why you would not consider a vision to possibly be of a more mystical nature that could still be somewhat consistent with science?
I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet. Well, if it is, you know where to find us.

Science is, to me, the observation of the universe, theories made on those observations, and the testing of those theories via more observation. By observation, I really mean an observation that is as meticulous as possible.

Having a vision falls under the category of observation. And thus it ropes visions into the realm of science, whether it be psychology or physics.

I don't view it as mystical at all; I don't consider it any more mystical than watching a beautiful sunrise. They're both quite natural and, at least to me, normal. I eschew words like spiritual and mystical and supernatural because, to me, it is all natural and an integral part of the universe. That's why you see on my discussion forum spiritual in quotes; I mainly don't know what else to call it.

I sense you are trying to understand TENYEARS vision from a psychological background with out the benefit of the medical component.
What I'm trying to do is accomplish two things:
1. remain on this board
2. ask someone I gather knows what he's talking about a legit. question on visions; my question was, basically, what happens when visions don't "come true"? I have my own answer but I was seeking TENYEARS'.

Are you sure psychology really applies to the vision of TENYEARS as I am not sure they have mentioned exactly what the vision is.
If it was an experience, I would say psychology applies. Have you ever heard of the "fantasy prone" personality type?

Of course there is a population who have altered perceptions that should be treated by the medical community, but should the subject of visions be limited to mental illness alone?
Of course not. But I wasn't implying TENYEARS is mentally ill or anything like that.

In the study of metaphysics or Kabbalah one will find reference to a consciousness that wonders into a hyper dimension where time is non existent hence giving access to information of things that have and will happen that the receiver was not previously aware of.
That's one model for the mechanism of visions. Another is that they are hallucination-like things with no tangible meaning, like being able to predict the future. The only way to convince a scientist that it's not the second type is by either proving that it is the first model or by having many, many verifications of visions being accurate. There is an inherint problem in doing so in that because of free will, choices made can alter the course of the natural future (especially after having a vision).

Your model is very close to the one I subscribe to except that the model I use involves the many worlds theory and that visions (and dreams) are glimpses into other worlds. That's why they can lack predictive power. I have a recurring vision of my house burning down but it still hasn't. I think that vision is more of a metaphor from which I can learn something... A keenly psychological process IMO.

The nature of these visions are at best confounding and the receiver is most times not aware of the details until they find themselves actually experiencing the event and then it flashes back on them like a memory.
Indeed. I have experienced that flashback (not drugs) of a forgotten vision some times.
Thank you for your interest.

Suzanne Elizabeth Seitz
Thank you for yours.
Lacy33
Lacy33 is offline
#16
Jan2-05, 07:52 PM
P: 335
"[QUOTE=phoenixthoth]I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet. Well, if it is, you know where to find us."



Why would this thread be locked? And where is it exactly I would know to find you?
Are you making reference to MALAI5?
Are you connected to him in some way?



"I don't view it as mystical at all; I don't consider it any more mystical than watching a beautiful sunrise.
What I'm trying to do is accomplish two things:
1. remain on this board"


Why do you need to try and stay on this board?
I ask with the same concern why you feel this thread will be closed down.

"If it was an experience, I would say psychology applies. Have you ever heard of the "fantasy prone" personality type?"



I am health professional and I have been on the phone with colleagues looking for reference to "fantasy prone personality type" in the DSM IV.
The only somewhat serious study we found with the limited time we had was from the internet:
Fantasy Proneness and Other Psychological Correlates of UFO Experience:
http://www.anomalistik.de/gow.pdf
The rest of the references on the internet all suggested some connection to paranormal/alien/UFO.

This is NOT my field and I am not qualified to comment on any of it.


"Your model is very close to the one I subscribe to except that the model I use involves the many worlds theory and that visions (and dreams) are glimpses into other worlds."



If the kabbalistic model is close to the model you are using, then why did you dismiss mysticism in the beginning of your comment. (Kabbalah is pure Mysticism)

And would you please explain in detail including all math if possible how your model involves "The Many Worlds Theory"?

This would be of great interest to me and I'm sure MANY others!!
If you have dificulties with the math. I'm sure you can find assistance on physicsforums with that. People are very happy to help.
Thank you again,
Suzanne
phoenixthoth
phoenixthoth is offline
#17
Jan2-05, 09:07 PM
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P: 1,572
Why would this thread be locked? And where is it exactly I would know to find you? Are you making reference to MALAI5? Are you connected to him in some way?
It may not be viewed as scientific enough of enough "quality".
My website has a link to a discussion forum that Malai visits.
So, yes.
Why do you need to try and stay on this board?
I ask with the same concern why you feel this thread will be closed down.
I like to discuss things other than what will get me banned (eg math), as I have heard Malai5 has been. Malai5 type stuff. So I discuss those things here and the Malai5-type stuff on my board.

I am health professional and I have been on the phone with colleagues looking for reference to "fantasy prone personality type" in the DSM IV.
The only somewhat serious study we found with the limited time we had was from the internet:
Fantasy Proneness and Other Psychological Correlates of UFO Experience:
http://www.anomalistik.de/gow.pdf
The rest of the references on the internet all suggested some connection to paranormal/alien/UFO.

This is NOT my field and I am not qualified to comment on any of it.
I would guess that the study says there's a correlation between those with f.p.p. and those who experience ufo abduction?

f.p.p. is a label given to people with certain traits. Often people with fpp think they have psychic abilities. Often they can hypnotize themselves easily and have extremely vivid fantasies (visions?). I could write out the whole quote from my psychology book if you want... I just want to imply that psychology/parapsychology may be involved in studying the phenomena of having visions.


If the kabbalistic model is close to the model you are using, then why did you dismiss mysticism in the beginning of your comment. (Kabbalah is pure Mysticism)
I didn't mean to dismiss mysticism. I just don't believe the mystical exists. Better stated, I don't call anything mystical. Sure, I am interested in what others would call mysticism but I just don't call it mystical. I just dismiss the name not the meat of the subject.

And would you please explain in detail including all math if possible how your model involves "The Many Worlds Theory"?
I've never tried to write down my own personal theories in the language of mathematics. I don't know the math behind the many worlds theory except Max Tegmark's level 4 multiverse, perhaps. The question there is finding a math structure isomorphic (or dang equal to) our universe; then all other isomorphic structures would presumably be alternate universes. I'm working now on the mathematics of awareness right now; it's in the fetal stage and my definition so far is non-intuitive to anyone but me.
Lacy33
Lacy33 is offline
#18
Jan2-05, 10:38 PM
P: 335
[QUOTE=phoenixthoth]It may not be viewed as scientific enough of enough "quality".

I choose to post in Metaphysics and Epistemology as it is my understanding that one not need produce "quality" scientific thought, but be reasonable, coherent, respectful, and clear of intent.

I am a representative of creative non-science professionals who would like to enter into dialog with science experts on the merit of their humility and seasoned imaginations.

Given proper direction we hope to bring up the non-science professional to enjoy the the products of their curiosity and very hard work.

We are only interested in developing a good working relationship with the science community, not alienating them. We need them, what else are we studying for?

Suzanne


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