Does Tension Force Do Work on a Pendulum Bob?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Help_Me_Please
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Momentum Motion
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of work done by forces in various physics scenarios, including a pendulum, a karate expert breaking boards, and the momentum of skaters. The subject area includes mechanics and energy transfer.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore whether the tension force does work on a pendulum bob and discuss the role of gravity in this context. There are attempts to clarify the relationship between kinetic energy and the speed of a karate strike. Questions arise regarding the total momentum of two skaters moving in opposite directions and the implications of their masses.

Discussion Status

Some participants provide insights into the work done by gravity and tension, while others question the assumptions behind momentum conservation. There is a mix of interpretations regarding the mechanics involved in each scenario, with no explicit consensus reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions and implications of work in the context of forces acting on the pendulum and the conditions under which momentum is conserved. There is also mention of potential gaps in understanding related to the calculus-based definitions of work.

Help_Me_Please
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
I'm a little bad with putting physics into words. The math doesn' phase me .. but these conceptual questions are a different story.

First one.

A pendulum swings back and forth. Does the tension force in the string do work on the pendulum bob?Does the force of gravity do work on the bob?Explain your answers.

I know that the force of gravity does work on the bob but I don't know how to explain it, and I have no idea about the tension force.

Second one.

A karate expert can break a stack of boards in half by hitting the boards with the side of one bare hand. Will the boards break more easily if they are struck swiftly or slowly.

The answer is swiftly. Now .. what I have is that if he strikes swiftly he has more velocity and therefore more kinetic energy. Is that an ok explanation?

Last one. I know I know ... I'm dumb xD.

Two skaters initially at rest push against each other so that they move in opposite directions. what is the total momentum of the two skaters when they begin moving?

Now I'm taking a guess here, but I have that the total momentum would be zero because they are moving in opposite directions and the momentum on one side cancels out the momentum on the other? Don't the masses of the skaters have something to do with it though? Obviously not because it doesn't say that they are equal in mass or what either masses are.. but why doesn't that have anything to do with it?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Help_Me_Please said:
I'm a little bad with putting physics into words. The math doesn' phase me .. but these conceptual questions are a different story.

First one.

A pendulum swings back and forth. Does the tension force in the string do work on the pendulum bob?Does the force of gravity do work on the bob?Explain your answers.

I know that the force of gravity does work on the bob but I don't know how to explain it, and I have no idea about the tension force.

The explanation is different for both.

For the tension: Since the bob is moving on a circle, you can see that, wherever the bob is, a tiny displacement of the bob is approximately tangent to the circle, and thus perpendicular to the tension. So the angle between the vector displacement and the tension is 90°. And since cos90° = 0 we have dW = (Tension)*0*(tiny displacement) = 0, where dW is the tiny amount of work done by the tension during the tiny displacement we talked about. Now the total work is just the sum of these tiny pieces of work: W=0+0+0+...+0=0. (Note that the rigourous solution to this problem requires the calculus-based definition of work, which I assumed you didn't know because at least when I was in grade K-12, they didn't taught it to us.)

For gravity: The question is a bit unclear. It is unclear wheter they ask for the work done by gravity in general or just during one cycle (i.e. one "back and forth" of the pendulum). In either case, I assume you are familiar with the relation [itex]W_{gravity} = -\Delta U_{gravitational}=-mg\Delta y[/itex]. Where [itex]\Delta y[/itex] represents the vertical displacement. So the answer depends on the starting height and ending height of the bob. However, it it is interesting to notice that since the bob gets back to its starting point after a complete cycle, we have [itex]\Delta y=0[/itex] and it follows that for this particular displacement, W = 0.
 
Last edited:
Help_Me_Please said:
I'm a little bad with putting physics into words. The math doesn' phase me .. but these conceptual questions are a different story.

First one.

A pendulum swings back and forth. Does the tension force in the string do work on the pendulum bob?Does the force of gravity do work on the bob?Explain your answers.

I know that the force of gravity does work on the bob but I don't know how to explain it, and I have no idea about the tension force.

Yes.Only gravity does work on the bob,because the tension force would have to compress the wire,which i think it doesn't.Gravity does work,because the system converts potential energy into kinetic one.Potential energy is minus the wotk done by gravity.

Help_Me_Please said:
Second one.

A karate expert can break a stack of boards in half by hitting the boards with the side of one bare hand. Will the boards break more easily if they are struck swiftly or slowly.

The answer is swiftly. Now .. what I have is that if he strikes swiftly he has more velocity and therefore more kinetic energy. Is that an ok explanation?


The breaking of the boards is determined by the quantity of momentum and the force of the impact.He would have to hit the top board with a great speed and at the same time the duration of impact be very small.It's momentum transfer that's important,because it's linked with the force via the second law if dynamics of Newton.

Help_Me_Please said:
Last one. I know I know ... I'm dumb xD.

Two skaters initially at rest push against each other so that they move in opposite directions. what is the total momentum of the two skaters when they begin moving?

Now I'm taking a guess here, but I have that the total momentum would be zero because they are moving in opposite directions and the momentum on one side cancels out the momentum on the other? Don't the masses of the skaters have something to do with it though? Obviously not because it doesn't say that they are equal in mass or what either masses are.. but why doesn't that have anything to do with it?


Apply the law of momentum conservation.You'll find your answer immediately.

Daniel.
 
Thanks SO much! I think I actually understood that. =)
 
dextercioby said:
Apply the law of momentum conservation.You'll find your answer immediately.

Yes, indeed. First step is to label your two skaters as a "system". It is probably written somewhere in your textbook that no force exerted upon the particles of a system by the particles of the system can alter the total momentum of the system*. There you go.


* Again, this is only fully explained by the calculus-based version of mechanics but mainly, it is because of Newtons third law: whenever a particle exerts a force on another, the "another" exerts an equal and opposite force of the first, such that the total force on the system will always be 0, and so will the change of momentum, according to the second law.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
6K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
4K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
6K