Perpetual Motion Disease

Q_Goest

I think that highlights two of the symptoms of PMD.
1) The person doesn't understand energy and how it has to balance.
2) The person thinks their idea is the first time it's ever been thought of.

PMD also induces the sensation of winning a lottery in the victim. It must be a wonderful feeling, but there's always the 'day after' sensation that arises when realization sets in.

OmCheeto

I almost met one once. In that eX-Filed forum I discussed earlier, someone brought together the fact that pistons of different sizes, under the same pressure, would have different net forces applied. So he proposed sinking his device into the ocean to generate huge amounts of free energy. I looked at his drawing and told him that it would work through one cycle and then stop. I also told him that I had a fish tank into which I could submerge a mini-model and prove this. He said it would only work if it were submerged under hundreds, perhaps thousands of feet of water. So I asked him if he required financial assistance for such a huge venture. He of course said yes, at which point I stopped conversing with him.

But I did google his name*, and discovered he lived only a few miles away from me. I now avoid that section of town like the plague......

*He was so confident in his idea, he gave out his real name.
Gads. Googling the concept and my town, still lists him on page 1.
How could I have forgotten that name....
OMG! His invention has it's own Wiki entry!

"A prototype [top secret name] has yet to be built, but several scientists and engineers^[who?] have attested to the validity of the [top secret] concept.^{[citation needed]} Conceptual drawings are available.^[doodle]"

I feel really special now.

Dadface

Peoples failed attempts to build perpetual motion machines has contributed to our knowledge of energy.A big problem is that many of the said people have paid dearly for their failures both in terms of time and money.

jhae2.718

As my thermodynamics professor says, the correct response to a perpetual motion nut is to call security.

OmCheeto

Don't I know that...

retrieving two empty tuna fish cans from the recycle bin: 90 seconds
finding hammer and nail to poke holes in cans: 90 seconds
pulling neo-neptunian, neobdinium, rare earth magnets off of 'fridge: 30 seconds
putting it all together: 360 seconds
time to realize what was going on in the "iron plate / magnetic attractor": 3 seconds
taking pictures, transferring data, etc: 1 hour 30 minutes

time it took PF to lock the thread: 1 hour 35 minutes

finding the long lost thread after all these years: priceless





and a special thanks to our long lost mgb_phys for sharing the great "Museum of Unworkable Devices" link. There can never be enough of those.

Q_Goest

Very nicely expressed... my hat's off to you.

DaveC426913

You are a good and kind person. The above description is the kind of thing that has inspired me to have patience with many people on this forum. When I've shot people down for their ignorance it tends to just makes them try harder. But with some compassion and patience, I like to think they come away with a bit of knowledge.

DragonPetter

I met a guy in this "hippy" area of a town in Norway living in an apartment. He was trying to build a PM device in the basement of the apartment and he tried talking to me about it.

From the start, he considered me an adversary because he knew I studied physics. He told me that physicists are not trained right, and we're only taught to think in one way. I felt that was ignorant and insulting, but I let him go on for over an hour since he was my friend's brother and I wanted to be his friend.

His idea consisted of magnets and a motor . . some kind of wheel. I picked apart his idea a few times, but he always would counter my attacks with pseudo science arguments that I didn't know enough about to really be able to refute him. Basically he said that there is vacuum energy that must be sapped, and so it won't violate the 2nd thermodynamic law.

Obviously vacuum energy is real, but how a wheel with magnets made in a basement shop is going to tap into quantum energy is beyond me. The sad part is he was not very rich, living as a hippy, and he told me he spent large amounts of money on the magnets.

lisab

I, too, was impressed by Q_Goest's understanding and patience.

I've learned the hard way that those suffering from PMD really, really don't want to hear a woman tell them their idea won't work - quelle horreur! Well clearly my sampling is biased since I've never told anyone that as a man .

Gender issues aside, now I just say, "You should build a prototype to see if it works!" At least that way, the local hardware store gets something out of it.

Q_Goest

thanks...

Antiphon

I'm a tad taken aback by the tone of some in this thread. It's not a mental disorder to want to make a breakthrough in science. Being stubborn about it isn't justification to be treated with disrespect by someone with knowledge in the field.

I suppose any of you would direct this level of scorn toward Issac Newton because he was trying to turn lead into gold?

How many of you have a hobby where you're not good at it but enthusiastic about it?

Should you mock people having fun overclocking and crashing their computers because they're violating the design rules of the computer?

Lighten up. Failing to make PPM machines is fun and a good way to learn physics. If it irritates you, pass these folks on to more patient people.

DaveC426913

I would say the lion's share of posts have been understanding and sympathetic (and, granted, frustrated too). OK, a couple of people took some light-hearted shots at PPM-chasers in general - but scorn, disrespect?

Some PPM-chasers are crazy. Do you suggest we must treat all people with respect regardless of how much they refuse to learn the basics of physics?

Yes, it is. If someone is there to guide these people. The problem with 99% of people who try to make PPMs is that they aren't learning physics; they attempt to defy it.


BTW, I see a distinction between the tone about individuals and the tone about a general group of people.

OmCheeto

And just for the record, I do believe in over-unity.


input electrical energy: 24 watts * 3.5 hours = 0.084 kwh
collected thermal energy: 2.3 kwh
yield: 27.4 times over unity

When in doubt, cheat. Kobayashi Maru!

Antiphon

Sure some are crazy. So are many homeless people. The level of disrespect they get should depend on their ill conduct, not on their lack of technical knowledge.

DaveC426913

So, point to someone here who violated that.

fluidistic

Ahahahah!!!!

DaveC426913

Well you're not helping...