disclosure project

Ivan Seeking

Crud! I was just going to send it but I may have deleted it... You can contact him here.
http://www.noetic.org/contact.cfm?Pval=4
http://www.noetic.org/about/history.cfm

I can't believe I might have lost this... I should have it but it may take a day or so. Hopefully its archieved. Anyway, he is quite open to discussion and can also be found at his discussion forums. I contacted the noetic institute because I didn't believe the Ed Mitchell at the forums is really THE Ed Mitchell. It is. He wrote back himself and invited further discussion.

Dayle Record

Am I hearing that the laser blinding of Airline Pilots might be crackpot UFO enthusiasts, trying to phone home?

Look at that possibility.

Overdose

Im not asking you to prove anything, just asking you to read a simple pdf document and to have have a full understanding of the material before dismissing its worth.
"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance" (as Einstein once said) i think would apply here.

I remember the previous thread, you called Greer a crackpot initially and only after some persuasion decided to actually read his website.
I also remembered you calling him a fraud and when i asked you to find me one instance of fraud all you could find was a webpage about how he once charged a group of people a small sum to join him in tracking ufos in a known location, which isnt fraud atall. Unless you could prove that he was purposefully leading them on a wild goose chase to rake in a few $'s. Which you arnt able to do, and given Greer's passion for ufo's it would be sensible to assume that he was geniune in looking for the ufos. You also as i remember seemed to think his charging people money for books/reading material was fraud, if thats the case then there are lot of fraudsters out there!

I know it was a response to Ron's comment and your response to him was a further strange accusation against Greer which you have dodged and avoided to back up or explain when asked to. Your simply making things up to strengthen your argument which frankly beggers belief.

I dont think the teasers are that great i'll agree with that but to say that they dont offer any motivation for further reading i personally disagree with. And since im in possesion of the full witness testimonys i have first hand knowledge that the statements on the site are mearly the tip of a large ice-berg.
If Greer can be accused of anything poor promotion might be one of them i'll give you that.
I'll send you the pdf or a link to it shortly to your email

Dayle Record

I will get on topic here. I read everything I could find about the disclosure project, without spending money. Anyone who has worked in fund raising, knows how info and perks are handed out on a tidbit to dollar basis. I genuinely felt that this whole thing had degenerated into a con, for money. Every organization needs money in order to run, unless they are well funded. Their technique was very, very, bait and collect funding. The title Doctor, Medical Doctor, implies an ethic beyond question. Implying if a far thing from being.

I have read everything I can find about UFOs, and government complicity, and extra governmental complicity, and Scalar weapons, and synthetic telepathy, and shape shifting lizard theories, and the Illuminati, and I grew up in the military. I live in a state where the largest employer is the military. I have looked at broad cultural mythos regarding our governments involvement with alien species, and read all of John Maacks and Streibers work, and some others. I am a deeply skeptical individual, and at the same time willing to entertain the entire discussion of any subject.

I personally maintain, that extraterrestrial travelers to this time and physical place, will come by some other means than the physical as we know it. If another species were as physically bound as we are, and arrived here with some sort of superior drive and time shift mechanism, we would have a lot to fear. It would mean that the loss of their world was eminent, or they are real estate developers. The way we have brainwashed ourselves with God concepts, would make us very vulnerable to take over, by anyone in a white dress and blue cape, especially if their ship had appropriate archaic markings.

Secrecy is always the hallmark of infamy. The right thing, can always be discussed. Secrecy implies no dicussion, no respect.

Money for insider information is one of the hallmarks of shuck and jive.

Overdose

well i certainly believe that there are craft in our skys and in space that use some kind of field as opposed to jet propulsion to travel. That much you can quote me on, id like more of the truth to come out about these craft, the disclosurse project while by no means perfect seems to be the best shot at that at them moment which is why im behind it.

mapper

Im an alien with Q like powers (star trek). Paypall me some money and Ill tell you a little more about me and my journeys.

matthyaouw

Q-like powers? I'll send the money when a stamped addressed envelope materialises on my desk. Fair deal?

Overdose

Seriously this is the last time i get in debates with people who feel able to critique material they havent read. *goes to waste time somewhere else more fun...

Physics-Learner

i just became acquainted with the disclosure project. i am open-minded on a subject that i used to think was "people just wanting attention".

there are hundreds of high-level people coming forward. they have made fairly concrete statements about events they have witnessed. there are multiple claims about missiles having lights directed at them, as well as being able to dis-arm them. there are some claims as to the capture of crashed spacecraft.

so i dont think one can claim that these people are not saying anything substantial.

they are in fact, making substantial claims. whether they are true or not, i dont know.

but i cant find an agenda for why all these high-level people would make such claims.

the thought that they are doing this for money seems somewhat ridiculous. it is highly unlikely that they are in need of any money - they have all had well-paying jobs for a long time.

i mean if were talking about a small handful that may have squandered their money, that is one thing. just too many of them to lend any credence to them getting paid to show up on greer's site.

for those who do not believe what all these guys are saying, what agenda/reason do you think they may all be there ?

gosh, seti just came out with a document that gives protocols for what should be done should an employee get et contact.

all of a sudden, we have defeated big oil, and we are actually getting electric vehicles.

i think something big is simmering at the top of the cup. but i dont know what.

but i certainly cant dismiss what is being said at the disclosure project. there are too many people all claiming to have seen stuff of great substantiality. AGAIN, IF TRUE.

FlexGunship

Wasn't much of a battle. Once electric cars became economically viable, they appeared. Just like you would expect in a free market. Kind of a non sequitur, don't you think?

P.S. Did we actually get rid of Overdose? Didn't know him. But I read this thread and he didn't seem like a very significant contributor.

JaredJames

Well he did get chewed up and spat out here. Didn't prove anything, didn't get anywhere.

Classic crack-pot behaviour. Take your arguments and questions and invert them back on you.

"Give me a source for what you claim about X"
"You give me a source for why you don't accept X"

You can't fight these people. Every thread like this has had this same repetitive pattern of a skeptic asking for evidence and the person making the claims refusing, generally because they feel they don't have to (it's your job to disprove not their job to prove), and asking you to give them evidence.

Physics-Learner

gosh, we could have had electric vehicles a long time ago.

FlexGunship

We did! The Chevy Electrovair. And they sold like pet rocks. Batteries were too expensive. They didn't hold enough charge, and electricity cost way more per kW than gasoline.

It should be obvious to even the most casual observer that winning technologies win. Exxon has invested almost 200 million in battery development techno.logy because they know that someday it will be cheaper than gasoline.

When that happens, you will see BP charging stations, Shell batteries, and Exxon power plants. Look at history; companies with the most economically feasible ideas win.

EDIT: Smart cars have been around since 1994. Available for anyone to purchase if they choose to eschew gasoline. Really!

Physics-Learner

greer is claiming that these ets travel faster than light. that is some sort of substantial claim.

if a society is millions of years ahead of us, most anything is possible.

if we look back a million years, everything we do today would seem impossible to those people.

so i keep an open mind about greer and ets.

it seems to me that if these substantial claims are true, that something truly concrete will surface in my lifetime.

FlexGunship

Agreed. To date there is no evidence that anything travels faster than light much less something with mass.

The simple passage of time does not actually make more things possible. It gives time for technology to be developed which could accomplish things within the same rules that define what is possible even before that time passed.

That is the difference between "impossible in principle" and "impossible in practice."

The following is impossible in principle: go faster than light
The following is impossible in practice: accelerate to a speed very close to that of light

Argument from incredulity.

Good to keep an open mind, of course. However, there is no guarantee that evidence will surface in your lifetime. I wish there was a more obvious way to say that.

Your life is not so cosmically important that the universe has a deadline before which is must reveal it's secrets to you. I fully expect to die with so many mysteries unsolved.

JaredJames

This is all well and good, by all means be open minded. However, this is a physics forum and the rules are clear regarding personal theories and claims of this nature.

FlexGunship

Oh, knock it off Iva--... oh... it's you.