Is it better to get a physics degree than a business degree to work in business?

chiro

You know, I just had to quote that for not only how true that statement is, but how scary it is as well in the grand scheme of things.

StatGuy2000

Your quote above tells me a lot about you more than anything else. It seems to me (based on your quote) that you are especially susceptible to the tactics of marketing people. Remember, the whole purpose of marketing people is to sell you something, whether you actually need it or not, so by nature I am deeply suspicious of anyone who is a marketer or someone with a marketing background. Call me stingy or stubborn if you will, but that's my nature.


As far as your example about the choice between a nice house vs a run down neighbourhood -- that is a false choice in many parts of the world. There are many places in the world where a nice home or house is easily affordable, and there are other places where those homes are available for rent.

On the other point about not spending/saving money -- I don't really see your point. Sure, if want to save your money and you decide to put it into mutual funds or retirement accounts, a 2% management fee is to be expected (or something along that line) since your funds are being managed by a financial advisor. That's just the way things work, and I'm fine with that. The alternative is for me to directly invest in stocks and bonds (cutting out the middleman altogether) with the risks that come with that, or just stick my money in my bank account or buy US Treasury bonds -- low return, but safe.

The point I'm making is that in the balance of spending and saving, I err on the side of saving when possible, and do my utmost to keep my spending on firm check. I really don't give one whit what anyone else says about my spending habits -- if I don't dress in the latest Armani suit, that's not important to me.

StatGuy2000

I have a BS in mathematics and a MS in statistics (both areas I consider to be science), and I can tell you that in my own personal experience, my skill set has been considerable demand by a wide range of businesses. I still continue to get constant calls or e-mails from recruiters/headhunters about positions in various businesses in both US and Canada related to my analytics skills, even in the current weak US economy.

So I don't really buy this notion that a science degree is somehow an impediment to entering business anymore than any other degree. Of course, anyone who is newly entering the current job market will face a tough time finding work (at least if you only look at positions in the US), but that is true regardless of what field you study.

StatGuy2000

Your quote above pretty much confirms my contention regarding business degrees -- an overabundance of one degree compared to the number of jobs that this degree will qualify for will necessarily lead to a cheapening of that degree.

After all, there is a fundamental difference between a business degree vs other degrees. When someone is pursuing a major such as literature, psychology or physics, he/she is doing so primarily out of interest in the subject matter (in the case of physics, perhaps also with the intention of pursuing graduate studies in the field or som cognate field) -- more often than not, what career he/she intends to pursue afterwards is a secondary consideration.

When a student studies business as an undergraduate, more often than not, it is due precisely in the intent of pursuing a business career. So a business degree is looked upon as vocational training. Therefore, if that business degree doesn't open career doors, one can question the utility of that degree.

noobilly

I'm not sure that a business degree is that useless even if it doesn't open career doors - basic finance, accounting and economics are useful in quite a few ways in daily life I think. Besides, how do you know there aren't people who are not intrinsically interested in business?

StatGuy2000

I suppose I should clarify a number of points here. When I question the utility of a business degree, I am speaking strictly of a BA in general business, without specializing in finance or accounting (I'm not certain about colleges/universities in the US, but in many universities in Canada, an undergraduate accounting degree is considered separate from an undergraduate business degree) and without combining business with another subject matter, such as science, engineering, social science, or humanities. Combining degrees, especially science or engineering with business, can be very useful and highly marketable.

I don't disagree with you that basic finance, accounting and economics are useful to people in daily life, and so I would recommend them as electives more generally to students in whatever field they are pursuing (I took economics courses in undergrad, and read books on finance on my own time).

I'm also certain that there are people who are intrinsically interested in business as a subject matter out of interest. However, given the number of students who are enrolled as business majors in universities across the US, I have to wonder whether all or even most of these students are doing so out of interest, or as a key to opening career doors that may or may not be available.

twofish-quant

But that's not a problem with the degree. The problem is that once you add up all the numbers there aren't enough jobs. If we went back to the economic conditions of the late-1990's then we wouldn't have a problem with too many people with business degrees or law degrees or physics Ph.D.'s.

That's true for physics bachelors degrees in 2012. It wasn't true for physics bachelors degrees in 1960. It's also certainly true for people born in the US. It's much, much less true for people born in other countries.

Whereas for physicists the supply/demand ratio is so skewed that it's not even worth pretending.

StatGuy2000

I beg to differ -- the value of the degree as it is perceived is exactly the problem.

It is worth discussing why people pursue post-secondary education to begin with. There are essentially 3 reasons (not mutually exclusive): (1) as a rite of passage to adulthood, (2) to enhance their knowledge, and (3) to prepare them for the workforce. Given the costs of higher education, reason (3) tends to be the most important immediate consideration. A student who would otherwise consider pursuing other interests study business precisely because it is perceived as a stepping stone to a career, especially during tough economic times, where having having a practical skill is seen as a benefit (in general, during difficult economic times, there is a marked preference among university students for practical vs esoteric fields -- this was evident during the 1930s, and I suspect that the situation is the same today).

Therefore, if through oversupply a business undergraduate degree doesn't ensure an opening, it's worth questioning the value of that degree.

Now it is pointless to discuss the economic conditions of the late-1990's in the US, as that was a time of considerable economic growth and excessive supply of jobs for people of all majors (business, law, physics PhDs to a much lesser extent).

I might add that my arguments will also apply to any degree which is perceived as being a career opener. A physics PhD, frankly, has not been perceived that way in the US, Canada or European countries (with the possible exception of Germany) since at least the 1970's (at least as far as work in academia or in national research labs are concerned) nor in Japan since the late 1980's.

I doubt that a physics PhD is viewed as a career opener in China today (there is probably a greater preference for engineers in industry, and in spite of higher public spending, there probably is still insufficient number of openings in academia or national research labs there to satisfy the demand). Ditto for India.

twofish-quant

Actually I don't think that I'm more vulnerable to tactics of marketing people than most people.

I do think that I'm a bit more aware and more honest to myself about what my vulnerablities are than most people. This comes less from any sort of intrinsic virtue, than spending a huge amount of time around sales people.

I'm in an environment in which people can and will screw you over if you let them, and in that environment, knowing what your weaknesses are is pretty important.

Needs are subjective and mostly psychological. Most of the important needs are things like the need for the approval of others, the need for human contact. Also, if you have an emotional desire to be seen as frugal, there are a lot of psychological tactics for that. Coupons, for example.

The other thing is that selling is part of the human condition. I have a high respect for expertise, and watching expert sales and marketing people in action is sometimes like watching poetry in motion. The other thing is that I have a deep desire to understand the universe, and some of the most important things that I've discovered about the universe have involved interactions with sales people.

Riddles and code words. For example, if you want to sell me a car. Pictures of pretty women doesn't do it. However, if you show me charts and diagrams, and give me a thick brochure with integral signs and equations, that will get my attention. Talk about fuel economy and the environment.

Not in the NYC area.

Actually you aren't. If you buy stocks and bonds, you are going through a broker, and not only does the broker make money from commission, they also make money from the spread. In the case of mutual funds, companies are required by law to disclose fees, but in the case of direct stocks and bonds, all you know is that you bought or sold the stock for $X. Unless you have a seat on the exchange, you just bought or sold it from someone that makes money off the spread.

US Treasury bonds go through broker dealers. The amount you are paying is slightly different from what the government pays, and part of the difference goes into my bonus. Checking accounts are loss leaders. Banks lose money on checking accounts, but every time you go there, you'll get some ad for credit cards or mortgages. Banks make $$$$ from people that carry a balance, but even if you don't carry a balance, they make money from the transaction fee that goes between the merchant and the bank.

To be fair the amount of money from these sorts of transactions are small. So small in fact that it's not worth your effort to avoid them. The amount of money that you are paying from the stock spread works out to a few cents on any reasonable transaction, but those pennies build up.

There's a difference between not caring and how you care. For example, if my wife thought that I was wasting my money, I *would* care a lot. It so happens that if I drove to work in a sports car or wore extremely expensive suits, that the people in my social group would say extremely bad things about me, and being seen as irresponsible at spending would seriously bother me.

It's common for intellectuals to laugh at people from being consumerist and driven by fashion. But I sometimes wonder how fair that is. It's not important to me to dress in the latest Armani suit, but it would tickle me pink to be a keynote speaker at a AAS conference or to be asked to serve on a grant review committee, and one thing that I wonder is whether or not my social needs are any different from the person that wants a sports car.

It so happens that the thriftness and frugality are highly valued among the people whose opinions I care about, but I wonder if this need for social approval isn't that much different from people that have different values.

james_blocker

If a business degree was worthless, there wouldn’t be scores of people opting for it in the first place, which shows that it does have a certain potential in the job market. A lot depends on you too, how you apply the techniques and skills learnt at college in real life. If you are serious about getting your business degree, consider CollegeAmerica's business programs, which are specially designed to prepare students to take on the competitive job market confidently. Visit the college, verify the accreditation, read student testimonials. Or go through a CollegeAmerica student review page to see if any of the programs they offer interest you.

Sjm757

You could get your bachelors in physics and then get it in business later, my university has a 5 year program where you get both, but it'll only take like 4 since I'll be doing the business classes during the summer

jedishrfu

HR is also measured by attrition rates that is they need to hire someone who will stay on the job so they tend to look for people who are neither under-qualified nor over-qualified. The candidates who pass this test usually fit the job description exactly and then its the end manager who must make a decision from one or more interviews.

One friend of mine long ago convinced the HR manager of a small company to give him a chance even though he was over-qualified for the job.Three months later IBM called and my friend left. The HR manager was mad because he hired my friend against his better judgement.

Companies also want to hire people that can be immediately productive and so they focus on those candidates who fit the requirements. In general a manager looking for a business programmer would hire a CS major with business minor over and a math or physics major with programming experience.

StatGuy2000

Has it occurred to you that a substantial number of people may overestimate the opportunities available solely with a undergraduate degree in business (not combining it with another degree or field of study)?

I might add that there are also scores of people pursuing degrees in humanities (such as English or history) or social sciences (eg. sociology), without any evidence that these degrees are any more marketable or employable than any other majors.

Best Pokemon

If a business or marketing student does a course in marketing research he or she would be able to that job. Statistical and data analysis packages are even used in courses like that.

Best Pokemon

It wouldn't be better. Physics degree and minor in business would be better. Math degree and business minor or business degree and math minor would be better than both you have listed.

Best Pokemon

Those areas are more applicable to business than physics.