4th May NL memorial day WW-II

So now are we back to the sociopaths again?

In the politics portion of this discussion I am certain it is the issue. In the other related portions of this discussion, I am not so sure yet.

The wolves are there, constantly intimidating us, watching for the weak one that is easy for the taking. Sheep aren’t fearful without the wolves. The wolves probably are sociopaths, but I won’t get into that now.

I don't think that herd instinct is the best way, or even a very informative way, to characterize the essence of the cause of WWII, or any war for that matter. Just my current opinion.

But I think we should find a way to teach the sheep about wolves.

Don't forget that the motive of the leader of the national socialists, to go to war, was the "Endlösung". And the question here is, how did he manage to mobilize a complete nation to co-operate to do that. Obviously what he preached appealed to the population, it triggered their 'noble' (herd) instinct to free the world of an apparently terrible threat. See also Crowd psychology.

And obviously those who opposed were just in the way, and were being taken care of.



Yes that would be great. One of the problems is that moral enterpreneurs usually do the teaching. They have a message to convey. Also they have a strong self-preservation mechanism, suppressing dissidence (see my signature).

I guess our hope is on communities like physicsforums where the ability to logical analysis may overcome gut feeling.

I agree with you that online communities like PF, with it's general requirements of documentation, logical analysis, and scientific verification are a good resource for getting at the truth of some things. However, some of the most controversial issues are barred from being discussed here, because it's not primarily a political forum.

Thanks Thomas, I'm happy that it makes sense.

I agree that the perception of a common enemy is a factor in uniting people, and that perhaps some sort of herd instinct or groupthink can be a factor, but I don't think there's any fundamental need, per se, to have or perceive enemies.

Regarding the genocide of Jewish and Polish people, I think that a majority of German people avoided, as much as they could, dealing with their suspicions about these things ... out of fear.

Other examples are
Emperor Nero burning Rome to frame the Christians,
The sinking of the USS Maine to lure to US to war with Spain....

There are many more

The cause of those two incidents is inconclusive, especially the burning of Rome.
Many more events near mythological in character?

...Obviously those notions are always heavily debated...

. A series of well coordinated incidents will be planned
to take place in and around Guantanamo to give genuine
appearance of being done by hostile Cuban forces.

a. Incidents to establish a credible attack (not in
chronilogical order):

(1) Start rumors (many). Use clandestine radio.

(2) Land friendly Cubans in uniform "over-the-fence"
to stage attack on the base.

(3) Capture Cuban (friendly) sabateurs inside the
base.

(4) Start riots near the entrance to the base (friendly
Cubans).
... etc etc

Gilbert(in his book): We got around the subject of war again and I said that, contrary to his attitude, I did not think that the common people are very thankful for leaders who bring them war and destruction.

Göring: "Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship."

Gilbert: "There is one difference. In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

Göring: "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

Andre,

Goring's statements are pretty potent! I think I will have to see how much info I can find about Gustave Gilbert.

Nagorno-Karabakh War
The demand to unify with Armenia, which proliferated in the late 1980s, began in a relatively peaceful manner; however, in the following months, as the Soviet Union's disintegration neared, it gradually grew into an increasingly violent conflict between ethnic Armenians and ethnic Azerbaijanis, resulting in claims of ethnic cleansing by both sides.

There are times when I am embarrassed to be part of the human race. This is one of those times. And to find out about it almost 100 years later???

Can society as a whole ever get to the point where we don't kill our neighbors simply because he doesn't LOOK the same, or maybe has a different religion? Or to try to create enemies?

There are monsters that walk among us. I wish them gone.

One planet. One race. HUMAN.

PEACE.

Abstract
In this theoretically informed study I explore the broader cultural changes that created the conditions for the credit crisis of 2008. Drawing on psychoanalysis and its application to organizational and social dynamics, I develop a theoretical framework around the notion of a manic culture, comprised of four aspects: denial; omnipotence; triumphalism; and over-activity. I then apply this to the credit crisis and argue that the events of 2008 were preceded by an incubation period lasting for over two decades during which a culture of mania developed. Then, focusing especially on the Japanese and South East Asia/LTCM crises, I argue that a series of major ruptures in capitalism during this incubation period served not as warnings, but as opportunities for a manic response, thereby dramatically increasing the risks involved. I also argue that this mania was triggered and strengthened by triumphant feelings in the West over the collapse of communism. I suggest therefore that this manic culture played a significant role in creating the conditions for the
problems that led to the credit crisis.

Just stumbled across an study that, although it is regarding the 2008 financial crisis, the data applies (I believe) to all scenarios that were brought up in this thread.

http://org.sagepub.com/content/18/2/173.full.pdf+html