Feasibility of a Nuclear-Powered Locomotive

Pkruse

Old Jim;

GA has an updated concept that they are marketing on their web site if you would care to look.

jim hardy

Thanks PK i honestly didnt know they were still around !! Will check 'em out.

old jim

zbret

I think the idea of a Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator (RTG) locomotive is interesting, but I wanted to comment on its current feasibility.

The Pu238 used for NASA's RTG is actually so rare now that NASA is basically out of the material. We were buying it from the Russian stockpile but they ran out as well. So, even if we could build this (and were allowed to), the Pu238 is not available. Since it is also desperately needed for any space mission much further than mars, it will also likely be earmarked for that over any terrestrial transportation options in the near future. Still, an interesting idea...

One question I have - is could a LFTR (thorium based) reactor be made small enough? i've heard rumors that one might be built to fit on a truck bed, so why not a locomotive? Thought experiment - what would the smallest LFTR look like? Given its safety features, I wonder if it might just be a reasonable option for a locomotive?

One side note, a LFTR would actually generate a reasonable amount of Pu238 which as I mentioned we disparately need for space exploration, as part of its "waste" products.

rmattila

The way I see it, railroads are an optimal means of transport for electrification by means of a fixed power line running over the track. In Europe, most trains run by the electricity from the national grid. Taking into account the challenges of radiation protection an the possible consequences of a collision/de-railing, it is not very easy to think how a portable nuclear power plant on a locomotive could be competitive with simply laying the power line over the track and building the power plant at a suitable location without having to consider the safety challenges caused by miniaturization and train crash loads.

lpetrich

Several European nations have a lot of electrified trackage: railways through europe — network maps and interoperabilty -- they even have electric-locomotive freight service.

Russian, CIS and Baltic Railway Map -- also heavily electrified

North America, by comparison, is pathetic. The only electrified intercity lines are Boston-Washington and Philadelphia-Harrisburg. New York City, northern New Jersey, Philadelphia, and Chicago have some electric suburban lines, but apart from purely urban lines, that's about it.

zbret

I suspect this idea comes from a few sources - first much of the US track is not electrified. Since electricity and long distances is not a good mix, and much of the US power generation is from coal, the US uses diesel-electric locomotives. They put out about 4 MW each since rail travel is quite efficient with energy, its an OK system. In Europe, the fuel is more expensive and the distances are shorter, so electric trains and tracks make far more sense. I'm not saying its not illogical to do in the US, but other factors need to be considered.

But - what if the locomotive could be replaced with another power source? 4 MW (about the power of a locomotive) seems like something that would work well for the nuclear range. In the case of thorium, it would only require a few grams or so per trip. There are plenty of reasons why it might be suitable, but I thought it was an interesting thought experiment, which I suspect is how this thread began.

wizwom

From: http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Nu...y_Reactors.htm
330 kilowatts is just 442 HP, so this is a not terribly powerful, but then again, at less than 40 tons, an engine could have two, easily.

zbret

Interesting, and a LFTR should be lighter more powerful and more efficient.

I went to the link provided and noticed the units seem to go to a fairly high heat output, but don't scale electrically. Just so you know, a modern diesel locomotive is about 3MW (4000hp+):
wiki/List_of_GE_locomotives#Evolution_Series_.28introduced_2005.29 (fill in the link yourself or search locomotive on Wikipedia)

I'm still curious what the feasibility would be based on Gen IV nuclear tech. Thanks for sharing that info though - quite interesting.