Obama vs Romney

elegysix

Then why don't you vote for Ron Paul? I'll be penciling his name in even if he drops out. He's the only candidate I've seen that really tackles the big issues - he actually provides a detailed spreadsheet with all the accounting to show that he will cut the deficit. Something none of the other candidates have done.

Even worse, on the white house website you can find info on the tax revenue and budget - projected out another 4 years or so. Obama's projected tax revenue doubles over the next term, while still having a deficit (incredible! I know) and that doesn't sound good for business.

I'd like to say Romney will be good for us, but I've read through his plans and haven't found good news for the budget or wars. He offers a few minor cuts on spending, a few tax breaks, but a huge boost to military spending - and the foreign policy of war if you ask me. There just isn't enough in his plan to reason that he will balance the budget, and a lot that suggests we'll be going to war. He hasn't provided basic accounting to show that his plan will balance the budget, and I can only reason that's because his plan won't balance it. I don't think it would even be close to balancing it.

Ryan_m_b

Exactly, I'm not saying the quality of political parties or government in general would change. But the system itself would be fairer IMO because it would allow other parties to actually stand a chance, ensure that no one's vote is wasted, remove the necessity for tactical voting and generally make people feel like they actually have a say which could reduce voter apathy, increase political participation and reduce social tension arising from a feeling of disillusionment with political process.

This is getting a bit OT though. If anyone wants to continue it would probably be best to branch off to a new thread.

ThomasT

Read this today:
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/chi...6/15/id/442453

Just some politcal positioning by Obama aimed at maximizing his projected proportion of the Hispanic/Latino vote, imo.

russ_watters

Wonder if the rest of the electorate will care about him usurping legislative authority/derelicting his duty?

aquitaine

After seeing that happen so many times in the Bush Administration I guess we just got use to it. Sad as that is though.......

Vanadium 50

But one theme of the President's campaign was "I'm better than the guy in the Oval Office". I would have hoped for more from his supporters than "he may be a scoundrel, but he's our scoundrel".

There's also a difference between the signing statements of both Presidents Bush and Obama (and for that matter James Monroe) - which have no legal effect - and the President saying he's not going to enforce a law he feels is Constitutional (he said so in March 2011) but that he disagrees with. Particularly when that looks like an attempt to win more voters.

Will this win more voters? It's hard to tell. It's certainly true that for every independent voter he loses he needs to pick up one from the base - or vice versa.

russ_watters

Besides what V50 said (Obama said he'd be better), it appears to me that Obama has been much worse on that score.

aquitaine

Yeah. That election was a choice between someone who said he would do better but didn't and someone who would have been more of the same. Either way we would get largely the same results except on a few wedge issues. I can't help but get the same vibe this time around, regardless of whether or not Robama or Obamney gets elected.




But here's the thing, during Bush's first term he had no vetos at all. None. To find a president with a comparable veto record for one complete term I had to look all the way back to John Quincy Adam's presidency (several others that also had 0 vetos died before their first term was up). During this period of something absolutly unprecendented happened and that was the executive branch merged with the legislative branch. I suspect the reason he didn't veto any legislation was because it was all his branch's legislation to begin with. Now, with Obama we largely have a continuation and an expansion of many Bush policies, but without a compliant congress he just runs over them instead. I predict if Romney gets elected we'll see a continuation and expansion Obama's policies, regardless of whether or not congress (or the electorate for that matter) wants to go along for the ride.

Astronuc

It appears that Romney wants to increase the Defense budget and decrease income taxes. OK - so what (and how much) is he going to cut to reduce the deficit?

Vanadium 50

Obamacare.

Astronuc

and what else?

Meanwhile - Unger strike: Obama’s former professor says he ‘must not’ win in 2012
http://news.yahoo.com/unger-strike-o...160604104.html

aquitaine

Well that's what he says, we all know what that means. In any case, given what the potential consequences are of continued runaway deficits, the fact that this is not at or near the top of the campaign, and that no one has a definite plan to do anything about it, indicates pretty clearly that neither takes this issue seriously.

AnTiFreeze3

I don't know about you guys, but I feel like somebody's moral values really needs to be examined if they were a part of a society that excluded black preachers up until 1978.

And it's not like it was little Mitt Romney as an eight year old kid who didn't know better, he was an adult, yet willingly practiced Mormonism.

I don't think that either candidate will do this country any good. As far as Obama's public speaking skills, I think there's a lot lacking (persausion, as was noted earlier). He's also bad (in my opinion) at holding someone's attention. He may be smooth and have a relatively appealing rythym to his speech, but ultimately it comes down to what he says, and whether or not people want to listen.

Neither candidate seems to have any productive plan for immigration, either. It's such an easy concept (allow more H1-B Visas....... for one thing), especially when you consider how many other developed nations, like Canada, have successful immigration laws.

Essentially it comes down to reducing the number of immigrants who come to the U.S. due to having a family member live there (which Democrats won't have anything to do with), and increasing the number of skilled workers who come the U.S.

ThinkToday

And the Catholics still don't allow female priests, Wright & Obama, etc.... I sure hope we can get away from religious testing. Unless it reflects substantially on their recent or current governing ability, a candidate's religion should be dropped from discussions. Although we should be able to discuss religion in the context of current events.

I haven't seen Obama do anything that would instill confidence in the business community. This isn't an environment I'd start a business in. There are just too many unknowns with what the government may do next, health care, taxes on small businesses, environment, energy, etc.

I'm hopeful that Romney has enough business ability to get that rolling again. Cut taxes for businesses for dollars spent in the US for expanding and creating jobs, for example. IMO, the key will be creating an atmosphere that's good enough for business to feel comfortable about spending assets to grow the economy here. There entire regulatory environment needs to be turned over. We have government involved in everything. IMO, one way to shrink deficits is to shrink the roll of the federal government and it's unfunded mandates. IMO, we don't need the Depts of Energy or Education, beyond setting basic standards. Companies were making electricity log before there was a DoE. Kids were getting an education long before DoEd, and giving the drop in world rankings, probably a better education. Additionally, the government needs to stop with the property hording http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/fis...s-property-map There is no need for the federal government to sit on unused or underused prime properties.

AnTiFreeze3

Just a heads up, I wasn't trying to start any controversy or bring religion into this at all. I mentioned that solely because I felt like the issue isn't addressed in the media or public as often as I would personally feel that it should be, but like ThinkToday mentioned, Obama has had similar controversies, and you can find dirty details in everybody's past if you're willing to look hard enough.

Just wanted to make sure that I wouldn't offend anybody with that post. Thanks.

BobG

Only the portion that disagrees with giving young illegals immunity.

Granted, a few people are more concerned with the integrity of the process than the outcome, but most form their opinion of the process based on whether or not it gets them the desired outcome.

This is a winner for Obama. It seems pretty heartless to the average person to deport someone that had no control over whether they came here or not. Especially considering that most people just don't have an incredibly strong opinion about immigration.
Polling Report polls on immigration

Usurping legislative authority to do something unpopular or illegal (violating the Geneva conventions regarding torture, for example) usually has more serious consequences with the public.

On the other hand, it's a small winner for Obama. Most people just don't have an incredibly strong opinion about immigration.

It will help him with Hispanic voters in Colorado, which is very close and which is a must win for Romney - and the folks that have strong anti-immigration opinions are Tancredo Republicans that won't be voting for Obama, anyway.

And it could help Obama in Florida, where Rubio (Republican) has championed a very similar policy. Romney looks a little out of touch with Florida, at least, if he makes an issue of this and Florida is another must win state for Romney that's virtually tied.

It's a small issue, but a small issue that could potentially be the difference in 38 electoral votes in a very close election.

AnTiFreeze3

In terms of the longevity of the U.S, immigration isn't a small issue at all. Unless it is reformed for the better, the U.S. will be falling behind nations with smarter immigration policies that allow for skilled workers to improve their workforce. It is a small issue in regards to the voters' opinions in the election, but in the grand scheme of things, it's something that definitely needs to be looked at further.