How do functions relate to operations in mathematics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between functions and operations in mathematics, particularly focusing on addition and multiplication as functions defined on real numbers. Participants explore the nature of expressions like x+y and xy, questioning whether they represent unique numbers or merely expressions that yield values upon evaluation. The conversation touches on the implications of viewing operations as functions in various mathematical contexts, including calculus.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that addition and multiplication can be viewed as functions from RxR to R, suggesting that expressions like x+y represent unique real numbers rather than mere expressions.
  • Another participant cautions against equating functions with sets, emphasizing that while a function can be represented as a set of ordered pairs, the function itself is not merely a set.
  • A different viewpoint acknowledges that while expressions like 3 + 1 are still expressions, they can be equated to their numerical results, indicating a duality in their representation.
  • One participant highlights the efficiency of viewing operations as functions in calculus, particularly in relation to the product rule and derivatives, illustrating how this perspective simplifies certain calculations.
  • There is a mention of the graph of a function as a set of ordered pairs, with some participants suggesting that this identification is useful in specific mathematical contexts, such as geometry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether expressions like x+y should be considered unique numbers or simply expressions. There is no consensus on the interpretation of functions as sets, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these perspectives in mathematical operations.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the complexity of the definitions involved, particularly regarding the nature of functions and their representations. There is also an acknowledgment of the potential for confusion in language and notation, especially for non-native English speakers.

C0nfused
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Hi everybody,
I have recently read a book of analysis, which starts with some stuff about Set Theory before moving on to functions. By reading the book, I realized (it was written in it) that the simple operations that we do (addition,multiplication) are actually functions.

Let's speak for the real numbers only:according to the book addition and multiplication are two functions from RxR to R, and actually functions are sets . So, addition of a pair (x,y) with x,y real numbers is a number that is the value of the function "addition" at the "point" (x,y) and is written x+y . So x+y=S((x,y)) if we name the function of addition S. The same applies to multiplication , so the value of the function M(=multiplication) is written xy and xy=M((x,y)).

So here comes the question: When we write x+y (example 5+3 etc) or xy , x+y or xy is actually one number and not an expression? To make myself more clear, x+y is not an expression that when evaluated gives the sum of x and y but a number that we, in order to find it have to add x and y? (I don't know if anyone else understands what i am asking!) So actually x+y ( or x+y+2z etc) is always one number, which is the "image" of a function(addition or multiplication) and we can write it in many ways because addition ( or multiplication) is not a "1-1" function? And we have just figured out some algorithms in order to find that image through calculations using the (x,y) pair , from which the image is "produced" , or generally transformate these pairs with others that have the same image , aslo making sure that the axioms referring to addition and multiplication are true?

To sum up the expression x+y (or a more complicated one) represents/is equal to one unique real number , so when we write x+y ,even if we don't calculate the sum, this still is equal to this unique number z with
z=S((x,y), and is not just an expression whose value is equal to z?
Are similar functions defined for operations in a vector space generally?

That's all(for now). Sorry for the weird language-English is not my mother-tongue. I hope that you have understood what i am trying to ask!(of course it may be just nonsense)
Thanks
 
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I didn't read everything you wrote, but be careful when you said a function is a set.

f is a set (or map) of pairs.

f(x) is not a set of pairs.

Try breaking up your post. I have a hard time reading large paragraphs. I understand that you don't know English too well, but if you just press Enter a couple times, it would make it so MUCH better.

Thanks.
 
Yes though some people like to call the set of ordered pairs (a,f(a)) for an arbitary function f:A-->B the graph of the function (though it's cera that knowing the set of ordered pairs means you know everything there is to know about the function in question, so that's why I guess many prefer to identify the set of orderd pairs with the function).

But yes the expression 3 + 1 (it's still an expression) is equal to 4 and is just another way of writing 4.

In general any binary operation is a function f:AxA -->A
 
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the reason it is interesting, or at least efficient, to think of operations like multiplication as functions, is that then in calculus for example you can take the derivative of a product by the chain rule, composing with the derivative of the product function!

i.e. multiplication is a function from RxR to R, and at the point (a,b) the gradient of multiplication is (b,a). i.e. if we change x and y a little bit, we get the product as

(a+dx)(b+dy) = ab + bdx + ady + dxdy, so the linear part is (b,a).(dx,dy).

then if f,g are any two functions from R to R, together they give a function from R to RxR, and fg is the composition with multiplication. Then the derivative of fg at t, is

the dot product of (f'(t),g'(t)) with the gradient (g(t),f(t)),

i.e. we get f'(t)g(t) + g'(t)f(t).

now this is a lot easier and more natural than proving the product rule by some trick of adding and subtracting the same terms.

this sort of approach is in the great book "foundations of modern analysis" by jean dieudonne, somewhat hard to find nowadays, and pricey.


but almost the only time people actually think of functions as sets of ordered pairs, i.e. as graphs , is when they are doing geometry on the graphs, like taking tangent planes etc... or doing some clever proof where it is useful to factor a function as an injection of the domain onto the graph, followed by a projection from the graph to the range.
 
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