Debunking the Myth: Is O3 Really Heavier than O2 in the Ozone Layer?"

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether ozone (O3) is heavier than oxygen (O2) and why ozone is found in the upper atmosphere rather than lower down, considering its density. Participants explore the implications of ozone formation, transport, and stability in the atmosphere.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that O2 is the ordinary form of oxygen and questions why O3, which forms the ozone layer, is not found lower in the atmosphere if it is heavier.
  • Another participant suggests that ozone formation requires UV excitation, which is more prevalent in the upper atmosphere, making it difficult to form ozone in the lower atmosphere.
  • It is proposed that although ozone is denser than air, its sinking is a slow process, influenced by air disturbances and the balance of gravitational and thermal energies.
  • Concerns are raised about the stability of ozone, which has a short half-life, especially in the presence of pollutants, potentially preventing it from accumulating at lower altitudes.
  • A participant references external information indicating that heavier gases, like CFCs, can still reach the stratosphere due to atmospheric mixing, suggesting a similar mechanism might apply to ozone.
  • Another participant speculates that solar radiation might cause the surrounding air to be less dense, allowing it to rise, although this is presented as a guess.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the reasons for ozone's presence in the upper atmosphere, with multiple competing views and hypotheses presented regarding formation, transport, and stability.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the mechanisms involved in ozone's behavior in the atmosphere, including the effects of density, stability, and atmospheric mixing, without resolving these complexities.

uq_civediv
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O2 is the ordinary form of oxygen, but O3 forms the ozone layer if i recall correctly.
Shouldn't O3 be heavier than O2 and thus be located lower than O2 not in the upper atmosphere?

told you it was kinda dumb one but it unknowingness (?) bothers me :rolleyes:
 
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It is hardly a dumb question. I haven't thought about this until just now, but I can attempt an explanation. Do not take this as the truth until it is confirmed by someone else (but it certainly provides a plausibility argument until such time).

There are (in my mind) 3 aspects to this problem :

1. Ozone formation : Ozone formation from oxygen typically requires UV excitation. There is more UV insolation in the upper reaches of the atmosphere. In fact, the ozone thus formed is itself the most dominant absorber of UV. So, it is hard to form very much ozone in the lower atmosphere. (Also, as you go much higher, say into the mesosphere, the density of oxygen becomes so small that it is again hard to form ozone; the optimal height happens to be in the stratosphere.)

But what stops the ozone formed in the stratosphere from sinking down ?

2. Transport : Due to the density of ozone being about 50% more than air, you would expect the ozone to sink towards the Earth's surface. This may well be happening, but this is a very slow process even under still conditions. In the presence of disturbances in the air, the downward drift might be even slower. (Typically, in a still medium, the rate of sinking depends on the ratio between the excess gravitational energy - proportional to the excess density - and the average thermal energy of the molecules, as well as the intermolecular attraction - which is quite high due to its polarity.)

But you may argue that no matter how slow the rate of sinking, the ozone should eventually find its way to the bottom and accumulate there. So, why is it important that the rate of sinking is slow ?

3. Stability : Ozone is not a particularly stable molecule. Even in a clean system it has a half-life of only about 10 hours. In the presence of moisture, CFCs, acidic gases, etc. this hal-life gets reduced to less than an hour. So, as the ozone sinks (assuming it does...even if very slowly), it gets destroyed, and is rarely "alive" long enough to make it down very far.
 
I found a site where the title of the page may interest you: "How Can Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) Get to the Stratosphere If They're Heavier than Air?"

"CFC molecules are indeed several times heavier than air. Nevertheless, thousands of measurements from balloons, aircraft, and satellites demonstrate that the CFCs are actually present in the stratosphere. This is because winds and other air motions mix the atmosphere to altitudes far above the top of the stratosphere much faster than molecules can settle according to their weight. Gases such as CFCs that do not dissolve in water and that are relatively unreactive in the lower atmosphere are mixed relatively quickly and therefore reach the stratosphere regardless of their weight."

http://www.al.noaa.gov/WWWHD/pubdocs/Assessment98/faq1.html
 
I'm guessing it could be the heat from the radiation of the sun causing the air around that area to be less dense and thus making it rise? Just guessing.
 

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