What is the Probability of Losing in a Lottery with 20,000,000 Tickets?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the probability of losing in a lottery with 20,000,000 tickets, specifically focusing on the calculations and assumptions behind the probability figures presented. Participants explore the mathematical reasoning, legality of such a lottery, and the implications of the approximations used.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the probability of all tickets losing using the formula (135,145,919/135,145,920)^20,000,000 and provides an approximation using e^-(20,000,000/135,145,920).
  • Another participant questions the source of the figures "135,145,919" and "135,145,920" and raises concerns about the legality of a lottery with such a high probability of everyone losing.
  • A participant humorously suggests that people would still play the lottery despite the high probability of losing.
  • One participant explains the mathematical approximation ln(1+x) ~ x for small x and its application to the probability calculation, while expressing confusion about the total number of tickets needed to understand the figures.
  • Another participant references PowerBall in relation to the legality of lotteries with high losing probabilities.
  • A participant critiques the approximation's validity in different contexts, specifically mentioning its limitations when x=1.
  • Clarification is provided regarding the total number of possible choices in the lottery, with a breakdown of how the numbers are derived based on the rules of the game.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the probability calculations and the implications of high losing probabilities in lotteries. There is no consensus on the legality or the appropriateness of the approximations used.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the lack of clarity regarding the total number of tickets and the assumptions behind the probability calculations. The discussion also highlights the dependence on specific definitions and rules of the lottery.

O Great One
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If you have a lottery (Megamillions) and you sell 20,000,000 tickets, the probability of them all losing is given by:
(135,145,919/135,145,920)^20,000,000 = 0.862448363

A close approximation is given by:

e^-(20,000,000/135,145,920) = 0.8624413

I just learned this from a book. That's pretty cool!
 
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I suggest that you go back and read that book again!

Did it say anything about where it got the figures
"135,145,919" and "135,145,920". For that matter, did it say anything about the legality of a lottery in which there is an 86% chance that EVERYONE loses?
 
Originally posted by HallsofIvy
For that matter, did it say anything about the legality of a lottery in which there is an 86% chance that EVERYONE loses?
I bet people would still play... ;)

- Warren
 
This is because ln(1+x) ~ x for small x.
=> ln[(k/(k+1))^n] = n ln [k/(k+1)] = n ln [1 - 1/(k+1)]
~ -n/(k+1)
=> (k/(k+1))^n ~ e^[-n/(k+1)].
See?

However I'm puzzled because it doesn't say how many tickets there are in total. Don't we have to know this to figure out the 135,145,919?
 
Last edited:
did it say anything about the legality of a lottery in which there is an 86% chance that EVERYONE loses?
Ever hear of PowerBall?
 
arcnets
This is because ln(1+x) ~ x for small x
At face value this doesn't seem like a good approximation for some similar applications, like 1/(1-ln(1+x)) where x=1.
 
Loren Booda, by 'small x' I meant |x| << 1. So it's not valid for x=1, of course.
 
I assume there are 135,145,920 possible numbers/choices, with one chosen as the winner.

The rules say there is a power-number 1-52, and 5 distinct numbers 1-52 which can be in any order. So that's 52 * 52! / (5!*47!) , which is right.
 
mea culpa, arcnets
 

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