Gulf [1991] War vets risk paralyzing disease

  • Context: News 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Ivan Seeking
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Disease
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the reported incidence of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) among Gulf War veterans compared to those who did not serve. Participants explore the implications of statistical data regarding the prevalence of ALS in these populations, considering factors that may influence the observed rates.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants highlight studies indicating a higher incidence of ALS among Gulf War veterans, referencing a specific article for context.
  • One participant argues that the small number of cases (40) makes it difficult to establish a clear cause-and-effect relationship, suggesting that military personnel may receive more frequent health evaluations.
  • Another participant counters that the sample sizes are large enough to yield statistically significant results, presenting calculations that suggest a notable difference in ALS rates between the two groups.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that the number of cases, rather than sample size, is critical for understanding incidence rates, noting that small changes in case numbers can significantly affect reported rates.
  • Participants discuss the potential for random factors to influence ALS case counts, suggesting that such factors should theoretically affect both groups equally, thus not skewing the comparison.
  • One participant proposes that using a one-tailed hypothesis test could yield even more statistically significant results, reinforcing the argument that Gulf War veterans may be more susceptible to ALS.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of the data, with some emphasizing the importance of case numbers over sample sizes, while others argue for the validity of the statistical significance derived from the large sample sizes. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of the findings.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the analysis, including the potential for errors in case counts and the challenges of establishing causation from correlation in the context of ALS incidence.

Biology news on Phys.org
With numbers so small (40 or so total cases), its tough to identify cause and effect or analyze statistical deviations. It may simply be (for example) that als is found sooner in military people because they are more physically active and get more physical exams than the rest of the population.
 
The numbers actually aren't small at all. They say 40 of the 696,000 Gulf War troops now have ALS, compared to 67 of nearly 1.8 million who stayed home. The number of positive cases is small, yes, but the sample sizes themselves are very large.

We have pALS|Gulf War = 40/696,000 = .0000575, compared with pALS|Stayed Home = 67/1,800,000 = .0000372. The p-value for a double tailed hypothesis test with H0: pALS|Gulf War = pALS|Stayed Home and HA: pALS|Gulf War != pALS|Stayed Home is 0.02852-- in other words, if there is no real difference between the odds of Gulf War troops contracting ALS vs troops who stayed home, there is only a 2.852% chance that we would see the sample statistics that have been compiled. I haven't done a power test since the equation is long and nasty, but with sample sizes that big it's almost certainly a safe bet that we can rule out a Type II error as well as Type I. In other words, the numbers are statistically significant-- something strange went on in the Gulf War, making American troops who fought in it more susceptible to ALS than American troops who did not.
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by hypnagogue
The number of positive cases is small, yes, but the sample sizes themselves are very large.
Its the number of cases, not the sample size that matters because the comparison is of the rates themselves. If for example their number is off by 1 for some reason (maybe a false positive or by chance someone got hit by a truck before being diagnosed) that's a 2.5% change in the incidence rate. Thats huge.
 
Any random factors affecting the number of ALS cases recorded in one group should theoretically apply equally well to the other, especially with such large sample sizes-- so they should more or less cancel out. Even if they don't, from the numbers posted it's clear that the number of ALS cases on either side could be off by a bit and still yield us statistically significant results. This is especially true since the quick statistical analysis above is based on a conservative double tailed test. If I had tested a one tailed alternative hypothesis (which is really what is in question here-- are the Gulf War troops more likely to contract ALS?) HA: pALS|Gulf War > pALS|Stayed Home, the results would be even more statistically significant and thus even more resistant to small errors in measurements.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
6K
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
6K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
6K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
Replies
82
Views
13K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
7K