Do white people have an unconcious collective prejudice against those of color?

Janitor

Somebody I know was in Las Vegas last year. There was a major boxing match going on there. If I was a boxing fan, I would remember the names of the boxers, but I'm not a fan, so I don't. Anyway, he couldn't afford a ticket to the actual venue, so he settled for going to a hotel/casino that was broadcasting the fight live. Even that was something like 50 bucks. I asked him who most of the people were cheering for. With a pained look on his face (he is what I would call an idealistic liberal), he said the black fans were cheering for the black boxer and the Latino fans were cheering for the Latino fighter.

Gokul43201

Chris Rock makes at least as much fun of the blacks as he does the whites.

Mightn't these have been turf wars rather than hate crimes ? Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised that gang members are racist.

Evo

No, at least in Houston, Mexicans hate blacks and the blacks hate the Mexicans (for the most part). Mexicans have special words for a mexican that would date a black. I use "Mexican" here because although we're supposed to say "hispanic", the Mexican culture in that part of Texas is unlike that in California, or the Latino (Puerto Rican) culture in Florida.

I got to know and be friends with enough people of Mexican heritage to know how they felt. They considered themselves above blacks. The two groups just didn't mix.

Of course you don't have middle and upper class Hispanics and blacks doing drive by shootings, it's mostly the gangs, but the prejudice is unfortunately still there.

Joel

Very well said. It is our consciousness and ability to make a choice that separates us from animals, and hence it is no excuse to claim "it is just the way humans are designed", when we retain that right to chose in other matters. And it is off outmost importance that we challenge our decisions and views, because snap judgements are more than often based on stereotypes. But on the other hand it is understandable that we upphold our self esteem and view of the world through such stereotypes, because if our and other's view of ourselves and the world is too different, we feel distress of various levels.

But I would still like to stress number 42's point about young childrens intergroup behavior and that this, "In minimal groups despite lack of conflict between groups there was intergroup bias. Suggested prejudice was an inevitable result of making distinctions between groups and cognitive categorization" - Notes on prejudice, stereotypes and discrimination is, as far as I know, very well supported, by numerous studies based on Social Identity Theory (SIT):

- About SIT

So, while a lot of particulary the racial prejudice is most surely learned, it seems we do have some form of not-learnt inclination to favour whatever group we identify with, because our tendency to cathegorize information and identify ourself in relation to it. However, this also suggests that we can overcome our prejudice through self-reflection and systematic processing (where we use less general cathegories or less stereotypes): As well as through positive contact:The same notes as above

Wardw

Too True Astronuc, I feel the same. I love the buzz of arriving in a new country where I am forced to communicate in language other than oral (many years of theatre acting helps).
I immediatly look for the odd places to go, far from the tourist hangouts. I have been in some very dangerous locations and with a firm belief in karma, I have never been assaulted or robbed and have usually met the coolest people. Goethe was the original "universal man", I love the phrase. I have relatives in Scotland as my father's family emmigrated to Oz in the 50's as one of the 10 pound emmigrants and as such, I was brought up with Scottish culture (even played the bagpipes for some years). My mother's side was from Glostershire so I also have rellies there. I also follow the Oz news and like you, after just 12 years away, know that I would feel like an alien if I returned, so much changes so quickly. Or is it that our mindset changes so quickly when we are away from our birth countries. I prefer being a "universal man"..touche
Maybe everyone should be forced to change countries every 10 years. now there is a logistics challenge.

JasonRox

I said none.

If you grow up with your parents making references to other groups (bad or good), you will develop racism.

Note: 2-3 years ago was the first I ever thought in the sense of "other" groups because my gf kept bringing it up. Yes, it didn't last.

My parents never talked about other groups, not even Italians! (Apparently, that's a big thing.) Although my mother did make a comment the other day I didn't like, I freaked out. All this time I thought we were in a stereotype free family. Boy, I'm not happy at all.

Wardw

Is that spring roll recipe in the public domain, should be, it's a public forum??
Here in Brasil spring roll recipes are thin on the ground.
Don't they say in Asia that the quickest way to a thinking man's stomach is via a spring roll??....no....perhaps they should

Wardw

You're right Astronuc, that's the problem and that's why I think it's deeper than the conscious mind will admit. I lived in Darwin for a couple of years as a kid, and used to play with the local chiefs's son, I even play the didge (try anyway).
But as you know, Oz has some very specific problems in this regard. I stayed in Cairns for 3 months doing an mainframe installation some years ago, and on dole day the local people come down from Port Douglas for the day, by taxi, make the driver wait until the dole cheque is cashed and then go and buy fish and chips liberaly washed down with the local brew and then hitch home, only to repeat it again the next fortnight. When the government gave out free homes to them some years ago in the North East, they light a fire on the living room floor to cook the lizard, trashed the house and go off on walkabout.
This is not a criticisim in any way. Their lifestyle is just so dam different, they think that if this this silly white man wants to give me cash and a house, fine, but don't expect me to think the same way about them as he does. It's our failing and it's easy to look back in history and point fingers, but what's the point. The problem is that no-one has yet come up with a solution.
And obviously this discription does not apply to all.
Hell even the last of the Amazon Indians here, some tribes only discovered in the 90's all get around now in shorts and baubles with cellphones. What do we do. Perhaps our eduation system is just not what they need. I don't have the answers to that but I'd sure as hell like to hear suggestions.
edit..perhaps we are the virus

Astronuc

This is a viscerally sore point with me. Stupid white men!

Some people of Anglo and European ancestry seem to have a cultural arrogance (superiority complex) in which they believe their culture is vastly superior to other ethnic groups. Look at what the Brits and Dutch did in Africa and Asia, and the Anglos in Australia. Look at the Anglos and French in North America, and the Spanish and Portugese in South and Central America.

I am thoroughly appalled at the past treatment of aborigines in Australia. Why do the Anglo-Australians think that all they have to do is give them cash and a house and all is well? Personally, I'd prefer to go walkabout.

Wardw

A trip worth making, agreed, you, me and David. BTW, ever see, "Walkabout" with John Mellion??
Fine film, he went to the other world only a few years ago I think.

Astronuc

I haven't seen the movie. Looks interesting.

Definitely worthwhile. I'll have to ask nge-ni-wiin-ya (willa, yungara). I'll bring me karli (kyli), but I'll need to pick up some ka-ma and jek-kor-a (or kaiya to some). I used Bengarang. I come from southern Koori.

Every now and then I have to get away from 'civilization'.

Wardw

Careful, some will think we have a private language thing going.
The movie is a true Australian classic 1971 re the purpose of a walkabout. Surreal scenery. It was the movie that launched the career of David Gulpilil. (he had a cameo walk on role in the first Croc Dundee movie). On DVD or available on teh web I believe.

Astronuc

I'd love to meet David. He's done some great work. And it would be cool to go walkabout with him. I've always wanted to get up to Darwin.

Christophe

Tribdog, you are very correct,
I have to also say that Japanese people are racist.
But I guess because their country is developed and
young people are taught more about theorems, morality
and plus, they are also mostly influenced by religious thoughts, especially Buddhism's (I really like this point..),
That I think is why Japanese people in particular,
and Asian people here in general think of different things
and other people in a much "softer" way when compared to those in America/Europe, and that there would not be traggedies like someone gets stopped in the street on his way home by a group of bastards with long iron sticks, sharp knifves in hand...which I guess people in North America (especially in most states of the US, or in big cities of Russia and England)

The problem in Japan I think is NATIONALISM, the same as the US; "creative" are unable to survive; "Japanese people are the better than others", this point is mostly approved by most of foreign students/people who now live in Japan..


Admittedly I love threads like this...

Christophe

plus

In whichever ethnic group you look, you will see that there are a few individuals who have racial hatred to other ethnic groups. To say that only the ethnic europeans have this phenomenon is ridiculous.

Artman

I worked as one of only a few white males in a minority owned engineering firm for three years. During that time I grew to notice color difference less and less.

One time one of the guys was trying to test me and he asked me if I liked working with black people more, or less, than working with white people. I told him, "I want to live in a world where color doesn't matter."

He said, "I like that answer."

I said, "It's true." And it was. I found that I had to make myself notice the color of the person, rather than that being the first thing I noticed.

I have since left that job (he was a bad business owner, bounced checks, etc.) and have helped three of the guys from that office find work where I work now. That was once an all white office, where prejudicical terms were fairly common. Now those comments are gone. I think working with other races help to bridge some of the gaps.

tdunc

I think there are different levels of racism. Im going to take a different viewpoint and say that a persons level of racism has more to do with awareness and perception that the people around them are 'different' rather than being taught. Racism can be taught hence taken to a new level, but I feel that everyone no matter what race you are has some degree of racism no matter how innocent or even ignorant of it they may be. If you feel bad because you might be somewhat racist, dont because it is completely natural. Take the animal world for instance, full of 'racism', if you dont look like the others you are look apon differently and treated differently, those are instinctive behaviors - to be curious and at the same time wary. A white rabbit will accept the company of another white rabbit without hesitation, along comes a black rabbit and he keeps his distance... Is that rabbit then racist? By definition yes, but that is what racism boils down to - willingness to accept or not accept.