Maxwell's Demon: Is it Worth the Read?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the book "Maxwell's Demon" by Hans Christian von Baeyer, exploring its value and relevance in understanding the concept of Maxwell's demon, entropy, and the relationship between information and thermodynamics. Participants express varying opinions on whether the book is worth reading and discuss related concepts in physics and information theory.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the necessity of reading an entire book on Maxwell's demon, suggesting that a few pages might suffice for understanding the concept.
  • Others argue that the experiment related to Maxwell's demon is informative for grasping entropy, noting the historical challenges to its original logic.
  • A participant mentions having read about Maxwell's demon in a chapter of G. Gamov's book, implying that it was entertaining but not exhaustive.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between entropy and information, with some participants suggesting that understanding this connection is crucial for comprehending Maxwell's demon.
  • One participant presents a view that entropy relates to forgetting, proposing that information loss corresponds to an increase in entropy, while also noting the reversibility of physical processes.
  • Another participant references external links for further exploration of the concepts discussed, indicating ongoing struggles with the ideas presented.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the value of reading the book, with no consensus on whether it is necessary or beneficial. The relationship between entropy, information, and the implications for Maxwell's demon remains a topic of exploration and debate.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference external sources and previous readings that inform their opinions, indicating a variety of perspectives on the complexity of the subject matter. The discussion highlights the nuanced relationship between entropy and information, which is not fully resolved.

DB
Messages
501
Reaction score
0
Maxwell's Demon by Hans Christian and Von Baeyer, for those who've read it, is it worth reading?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Maybe I'm wrong, but why to read a whole book for the Maxwell's demon?
 
DB said:
Maxwell's Demon by Hans Christian and Von Baeyer, for those who've read it, is it worth reading?
I haven't read this book but I have read his book 'Information: The New language of Science'. I felt that this was definitely worth reading, but at the start he seemed to be trying to show how difficult the subject was. Possibly his other book is similar, so I would say that even if the first chapter seems a bit daunting then you should stick with it.

Notes:
1)Hans Christian Von Baeyer is all one name

2)When I first looked at your post with what seemed like 2 authors, it thought it referred to Maxwell's demon 2 : entropy, classical and quantum information, computing / edited by Harvey S. Leff and Andrew F. Rex., but that's a different book altogether - its a collection of papers about Maxwell's demon, and I would only advise it for those who are keen on finding out about the history of the subject.
 
oops my mistake, its just that von baeyer was under hans christian.
 
ramollari said:
Maybe I'm wrong, but why to read a whole book for the Maxwell's demon?

I'd suggest several even (well, at least one). It's a very, very informative experiment to get a grip on entropy, if that's at all possible. Took quite some time for someone to really refute the original logic, too (Szilard).

http://users.ntsource.com/~neilsen/papers/demon/dpaper.html
 
Last edited by a moderator:
lyapunov said:
I'd suggest several even (well, at least one). It's a very, very informative experiment to get a grip on entropy, if that's at all possible. Took quite some time for someone to really refute the original logic, too (Szilard).

http://users.ntsource.com/~neilsen/papers/demon/dpaper.html
I don't have anything against the subject, honestly it is among the most interesting ones. I have read about the Maxwell's daemon in a chapter of an entertaining book from G.Gamov, and I think a few pages would be enough. Maybe the interested reader would like to know more.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ramollari said:
I have read about the Maxwell's daemon in a chapter of an entertaining book from G.Gamov, and I think a few pages would be enough.

Let me guess: The New World of Mr. Tompkins ...

nice, but hardly thorough or extensive. :wink:
 
Yes, you got it! :smile:
 
ramollari said:
Yes, you got it! :smile:

Thought so.
:smile:

Thing is though, that entropy is not only something related to energy, but to information as well. There are subtle differences, some pretty hard to grasp. Therefore I'd suggest to anyone really reading up on MD, because it is one of the rare instances where the two types (energy and information) meet.

And entropy plays an enormous - albeit somewhat hidden - role in just about everything we do. It keeps us sane, for one - through forgetting. Even if we don't really forget, but no longer focus on something - essentially because we do no longer wish to put in so much effort (energy) into something bad or that's gone wrong in the past.

Something much overlooked in A.I. circles, too. :wink:
 
  • #10
Entropy v Forgetting
What is the relationship?
 
  • #11
ramollari said:
Entropy v Forgetting
What is the relationship?
Well suppose you turn off your computer. The information in it is lost (forgotten) due to dispersion of the energy of the system to the environment - the increase of entropy.

So I've told you how entropy is really the same as forgetting. Well, now you should forget it, because I'm going to tell you the exact opposite :confused:

When Maxwell's demon finds out the position of a particle he has gained some information. To reset the system to its original state he has to get rid of this information. But since physics is reversible he has no mechanism for doing this. If he could then we could build Maxwell's demon type devices. Thus the second law of thermodynamics rests on the fact that no information is ever truly forgotten.
 
  • #12

Similar threads

Particle Maxwell's demon full experiment description
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Other How Can I Study Maxwell's Demon Using Far from Equilibrium Statistics?
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Undergrad Relationship between nuclear magnetic physics and Maxwell's demon
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Undergrad Maxwell's Demon and the Uncertainty Principle
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
Graduate Is Maxwell's Demon Limited by Energy Required for Door Movement?
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
Graduate Ending global warming with Maxwell's demon
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
Graduate Maxwell's Demon Paradox: Solving the Puzzle Without Memory Requirements
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K
Graduate I have a problem with Maxwell's demon
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
Classical Thermodynamics and information theory
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Graduate Is this another Maxwell's demon?
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K