AP Calc: Finding Area of Polar Graphs without a Calculator

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the area of a polar graph, specifically focusing on the polar equation r = cos(4θ). Participants explore how to determine the bounds for integration without using a calculator, emphasizing the importance of understanding the behavior of polar coordinates and the characteristics of the graph.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Jameson expresses confusion about determining the bounds for the area of a polar region, specifically for the equation r = cos(4θ).
  • Some participants suggest that a loop occurs when the radius r starts and ends at zero, prompting a discussion on how to identify these points using the behavior of the cosine function.
  • Jameson proposes bounds of π/8 to 3π/8 for the integral, questioning their correctness.
  • Daniel suggests plotting the function to visually determine the bounds and mentions the possibility of using hand-drawn graphs.
  • Jameson acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding the bounds but expresses uncertainty about plotting polar coordinates.
  • There is a debate about the necessity of using a calculator versus plotting by hand, with some participants asserting that hand plotting is feasible.
  • Jameson later clarifies that while he can plot cosine functions, he struggles with polar graphs specifically.
  • Daniel discusses the transformation of the cosine function and its implications for graphing, suggesting that understanding these transformations can aid in plotting polar graphs.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best method for determining bounds or the necessity of using a calculator versus hand plotting. Multiple viewpoints remain regarding the approach to solving the problem.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express limitations in their understanding of polar coordinates and graphing techniques, which may affect their ability to determine bounds accurately.

Jameson
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I have the AP Calc test coming up in May, and polar graphs are going to be of somewhat importance.

The area of a polar region is: [tex]A = \frac{1}{2}\int_{a}^{b}r^2d\theta[/tex]

The only thing I don't understand is how to know your bounds.

Example: Find the area of one loop of the polar equation [tex]r = \cos(4\theta)[/tex]

Help please :cry:

-------------
Jameson

P.S. I need to do this without a calculator
 
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Jameson said:
The only thing I don't understand is how to know your bounds.

Example: Find the area of one loop of the polar equation [tex]r = \cos(4\theta)[/tex]

A loop presumably takes place when the radius r starts at zero (the origin) and ends at zero without hitting zero anywhere in between. Using only this definition, you can easily see how many loops the graph of r = [tex]1-\theta^2[/tex] has and where [tex]\theta[/tex] hits zero. You know the behavior of cos(t) and you should know the behavior of A*cos(B*t) + C for arbitrary A,B, and C. Can you find the bounds using the definition of loop given above ?
It's really just another way of talking about the area between roots of the equation.
 
Last edited:
[tex]A = \frac{1}{2} \int_{\frac{\pi}{8}}^{\frac{3\pi}{8}} \cos(4\theta) ^{2}d\theta[/tex] ?

Those are when the graph will hit zero... I think at least.

Jameson
 
How about plotting that [tex]\cos \ 4\theta[/tex]...?You'll figure out immediately when it starts to thake the same values again...Or you can dirrectly plot the polar diagram and find from the graph to what values do the ends of the loop correspond to.

Daniel.

P.S.Shouldn't the polar coord.be [itex]\rho,\varphi[/itex]...?
 
dextercioby said:
How about plotting that [tex]\cos \ 4\theta[/tex]...?You'll figure out immediately when it starts to thake the same values again...Or you can dirrectly plot the polar diagram and find from the graph to what values do the ends of the loop correspond to.

Daniel.

P.S.Shouldn't the polar coord.be [itex]\rho,\varphi[/itex]...?
He is restricted from using a calculator. Using consecutive roots to find loops is the simplest non-visual way.
 
Jameson said:
[tex]A = \frac{1}{2} \int_{\frac{\pi}{8}}^{\frac{3\pi}{8}} \cos(4\theta) ^{2}d\theta[/tex] ?

Those are when the graph will hit zero... I think at least.

Jameson
Yep, that's one loop. :)
 
What I did (incorrectly I know) was [tex]\cos(4*\frac{\pi}{8}) = 0[/tex]

So I started there... and the second bound was where that equaled 0 again. I don't know how to plot polar coordinates really. I'm kind of in the dark here. Can someone tell why my bounds are incorrect?

EDIT: I didn't see you told me I had the right answer. Thank you very much for your help :smile:
 
Who said anything about using a calculator...?Can't he plot BY HAND [tex]\cos \ 4\theta[/tex] ?? : That's absurd...

Daniel.
 
Actually I can't plot by hand. I still need to learn. Thank you hypermorphism for your help.
 
  • #10
Jameson said:
What I did (incorrectly I know) was [tex]\cos(4*\frac{\pi}{8}) = 0[/tex]

So I started there... and the second bound was where that equaled 0 again. I don't know how to plot polar coordinates really. I'm kind of in the dark here. Can someone tell why my bounds are incorrect?

EDIT: I didn't see you told me I had the right answer. Thank you very much for your help :smile:

Another way is to see that f(t) = cos(4t) shrinks the graph along the x-axis by a factor of 4 so that cos(2pi) is mapped to f(pi/2). The rest is just sketching the graph so that cos(t) in the interval [0,2pi] is shrunk to the interval [0,pi/2]. :)
 
  • #11
You can't plot "cosine" by hand...?That's bad...

Daniel.
 
  • #12
I can plot cosine by hand Daniel. That's basic trig. I can't plot the polar graph I mentioned.
 
  • #13
dextercioby said:
Who said anything about using a calculator...?Can't he plot BY HAND [tex]\cos \ 4\theta[/tex] ?? : That's absurd...

Daniel.
My bad. :D Your plotting is what I refer to as sketching. I've usually only heard plotting in reference to hard-copy plotters/software.
 
  • #14
I was spealking about "cosine of 4 theta" which is a strangled version of cosine...

Daniel.
 
  • #15
Of course I can plot that... You're right, that would be very bad if I couldn't.
 
  • #16
Jameson said:
I can plot cosine by hand Daniel. That's basic trig. I can't plot the polar graph I mentioned.
Try plotting it and its friends (A*cos(B*t) + C) using the Cartesian graphs as guides. After awhile you won't need the guides. It's good to have multiple views of the same mathematical object.
 
  • #17
Shift on the horizontal an and compression on both directions...Quite useless on other functions,pretty handy when it comes to parabolas or circular trig.functions.

Daniel.
 

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