New test of GR - verified to 1:20,000

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on a test of General Relativity (GR) conducted using the Cassini spaceprobe in 2002, which involved radio communications as it passed near the Sun. Participants explore the implications of this test, its historical context, and related experiments in gravitational physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Historical
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the Cassini experiment demonstrated GR's validity to approximately +/- 5 x 10-5, comparing it to the 1919 Eddington test of light bending.
  • There is a suggestion to relate the bending angle of light to the index of refraction and the time delay effect observed in the Cassini experiment.
  • Participants express appreciation for the efficiency of using space missions to conduct multiple experiments, highlighting the value of such tests given the costs involved.
  • One participant mentions an upcoming satellite-borne test of GR's frame-dragging prediction, known as Gravity Probe B, which is set to launch soon.
  • Historical context is provided regarding the concept of gravitomagnetism and its relation to GR, with references to earlier calculations by Lense and Thirring.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the significance of the Cassini experiment and its relation to historical tests of GR. However, there are multiple viewpoints regarding the implications and interpretations of the results, particularly in relation to future experiments like Gravity Probe B.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions reference the historical development of concepts like frame-dragging and gravitomagnetism, indicating a complex interplay of ideas that may not be fully resolved within the current discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in the experimental validation of General Relativity, historical physics experiments, and ongoing research in gravitational physics may find this discussion relevant.

Nereid
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In 2002, the Cassini spaceprobe, on its way to Saturn, passed close to the Sun as seen from the Earth (it was actually a long way from the Sun). Using the radio communications with Cassini, a stringent test of General Relativity was performed (a similar test had been done using the Viking lander on Mars, in 1979).

GR passed with flying colours.
This experiment shows GR to be valid to +/- ~5 x 10-5.

A popular account:
http://skyandtelescope.com/news/article_1066_1.asp

A preprint:
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/0308/0308010.pdf
 
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Yay Albert! This is great.
It is really close in spirit to the 1919 test by Eddington four years after Einstein proposed the theory----light bending as it passes sun (1919) and radiosignal slowed down as it passes close to sun (2002) are both showing the coefficient of refraction.

n = 1 + RSchw/r

Nereid you could probably expand on this a bit and give anyone who is interested some extra intuition about it. Wish you would. Too good an example and illustration of GR not to discuss further. How about it?

I always like to use the formula that the angle (in radians) that a ray is bent is equal to

2RSchw/r

where r is the distance of closest approach to the sun and the Schw radius is the familiar 2GM/c2

if you can relate this bending angle to the index of refraction and the timedelay effect on the radio signal from Cassini spacecraft as it passed the sun , or say anything to put a little meat on the bones, please do


Originally posted by Nereid
In 2002, the Cassini spaceprobe, on its way to Saturn, passed close to the Sun as seen from the Earth (it was actually a long way from the Sun). Using the radio communications with Cassini, a stringent test of General Relativity was performed (a similar test had been done using the Viking lander on Mars, in 1979).

GR passed with flying colours.
This experiment shows GR to be valid to +/- ~5 x 10-5.

A popular account:
http://skyandtelescope.com/news/article_1066_1.asp

A preprint:
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/0308/0308010.pdf
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I love it when they piggyback these kinds of experiments.
 
Originally posted by Phobos
I love it when they piggyback these kinds of experiments.

Yes, with the expense of space missions, it is nice to see organisations like NASA and the ESO squeezing every bit of value out of their dime.

Nereid, thanks for reminding me, there's a sattelite-borne test of another of GR's predictions (frame-dragging) that I was going to make sure to follow. Haven't checked it in so long, I can't even remember the name. I'll get back with some data within 24.
 
http://www.phys.lsu.edu/mog/mog10/node9.html

Gravitomagnetism has a history that is at least as long as that of general relativity itself. The idea that mass currents might generate the gravitational analogue of magnetic fields, and crude experiments to look for such effects predated Einstein. Soon after the publication of general relativity (GR), Lense and Thirring calculated the advance of the pericenter and line of nodes of a particle orbiting a rotating mass.
______________________________________________________________________

for anyone that is unfamiliar with the term "frame dragging",
 
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For those interested in following along, the new experiment in GR' frame-dragging prediction is called Gravity Probe B, or just "GP-B", and is scheduled for launch from Vandenburgh on in early December. Should be about two years in orbit to collect data.
 
Originally posted by LURCH
For those interested in following along, the new experiment in GR' frame-dragging prediction is called Gravity Probe B, or just "GP-B", and is scheduled for launch from Vandenburgh on in early December. Should be about two years in orbit to collect data.

Leonard Schiff thought that experiment up while taking a dip in someone's swimming pool back in 1960s. It has taken a long time to get it ready to fly. This is a postumous triumph for Schiff
 

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