Is it suitable to cite the paper you have just submitted but not accepted yet

Qingpei Hu

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no,location=no, scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\nHi,\n\nHave you ever encounted such questions?\nSometimes, you need to cite your own work, but which maybe not got\npublished/accepted yet.\n\nHow to do with this?\n\nThanks,\n\nNeon\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Hi,

Have you ever encounted such questions?
Sometimes, you need to cite your own work, but which maybe not got
published/accepted yet.

How to do with this?

Thanks,

Neon

xanthian@well.com

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no,location=no, scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\nQingpei Hu wrote:\n\n> Have you ever encounted such questions?\n> Sometimes, you need to cite your own work, but which maybe not got\n> published/accepted yet.\n\n> How to do with this?\n\nA frequently seen solution is to put it in\n\nhttp://arxiv.org/\n\nthen cite it from there.\n\n[Rant:]\n\nThis is a good idea in any case. As print journals\nhide online electronic copies of articles behind\n"subscription" or "pay per view" barriers, the\nfindings of science are becoming so fragmented that\nthe promise of the Internet is being lost, and doing\nscience, once made easier with online access, is now\nback to being practical only for those with access\nto a major university library.\n\nThis is making "print journalism" an _impediment_ to\nscientific progress, unfortunately.\n\nSigh.\n\nThe responsible author will assure that a freely\naccessible copy of all publications remains\navailable despite journal attempts to sequester data\nbehind journal-funding barriers, either from sites\nlike arxiv.org, or from a personal "publications"\npage that lets the interested learner download them.\n\nThe proactive author will go back and do this with\nhis or her earlier, pre-Internet publications too,\nand keep their format abreast of usual online\nreading technology. Today, that\'s mostly HTML\n(preferred, for ease of hyperlinked browsing, but\npackage an easily downloaded zip or other archive\nform too) and PDF formats; lots of old PS format\ndocuments desperately need converting to the newer\nforms, since the available PS online viewers are of\nmarginal quality and robustness.\n\nIMO, as a poor person still trying to do good\nscience but often locked out by online "for\nsubscribers only" signs, just another, newer form of\nthat old and ugly standby, segregation.\n\nxanthian.\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Qingpei Hu wrote:

> Have you ever encounted such questions?
> Sometimes, you need to cite your own work, but which maybe not got
> published/accepted yet.

> How to do with this?

A frequently seen solution is to put it in

http://arxiv.org/

then cite it from there.

[Rant:]

This is a good idea in any case. As print journals
hide online electronic copies of articles behind
"subscription" or "pay per view" barriers, the
findings of science are becoming so fragmented that
the promise of the Internet is being lost, and doing
science, once made easier with online access, is now
back to being practical only for those with access
to a major university library.

This is making "print journalism" an _impediment_ to
scientific progress, unfortunately.

Sigh.

The responsible author will assure that a freely
accessible copy of all publications remains
available despite journal attempts to sequester data
behind journal-funding barriers, either from sites
like arxiv.org, or from a personal "publications"
page that lets the interested learner download them.

The proactive author will go back and do this with
his or her earlier, pre-Internet publications too,
and keep their format abreast of usual online
reading technology. Today, that's mostly HTML
(preferred, for ease of hyperlinked browsing, but
package an easily downloaded zip or other archive
form too) and PDF formats; lots of old PS format
documents desperately need converting to the newer
forms, since the available PS online viewers are of
marginal quality and robustness.

IMO, as a poor person still trying to do good
science but often locked out by online "for
subscribers only" signs, just another, newer form of
that old and ugly standby, segregation.

xanthian.

whopkins@csd.uwm.edu

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no,location=no, scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\nQingpei Hu wrote:\n> Have you ever encounted such questions?\n> Sometimes, you need to cite your own work, but which maybe not got\n> published/accepted yet.\n\nUnpublished results and even personal communication cites exist.\n\n> How to do with this?\n\nA careful reviewer probably asks for a copy of the originals to include\nthat, as well, within the evaluation.\n\nThe theory is that cites are only a fix for what, ultimately, must be\ncompletely self-contained. It\'s either self-contained within the\npublication or one step removed within it and the first order links, or\ntwo steps removed down to the second order, or ... etc. Stuff already\npublished is already included and therefore need not be directly\nvalidated.\n\nThis way, nothing slips in through the back door.\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Qingpei Hu wrote:
> Have you ever encounted such questions?
> Sometimes, you need to cite your own work, but which maybe not got
> published/accepted yet.

Unpublished results and even personal communication cites exist.

> How to do with this?

A careful reviewer probably asks for a copy of the originals to include
that, as well, within the evaluation.

The theory is that cites are only a fix for what, ultimately, must be
completely self-contained. It's either self-contained within the
publication or one step removed within it and the first order links, or
two steps removed down to the second order, or ... etc. Stuff already
published is already included and therefore need not be directly
validated.

This way, nothing slips in through the back door.

cmamo

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no,location=no, scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\nNeon et al., submitted to BLAH (2005)\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>Neon et al., submitted to BLAH (2005)

Stupendous_Man

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no,location=no, scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>xanthian@well.com wrote:\n> > Have you ever encounted such questions?\n> > Sometimes, you need to cite your own work, but which maybe not got\n> > published/accepted yet.\n>\n> > How to do with this?\n\nIf I were the referee for your paper, I\'d insist that\nyou include the work in the current paper. How can\nI evaluate your work if I can\'t see it? That\'s not how\nscience ought to work.\n\nAnother poster wrote:\n\n> The responsible author will assure that a freely\n> accessible copy of all publications remains\n> available despite journal attempts to sequester data\n> behind journal-funding barriers, either from sites\n> like arxiv.org, or from a personal "publications"\n> page that lets the interested learner download them.\n\nI agree that this is a nice idea. In twenty years,\nthough, a paper journal article will still be legible\nand available (to some people, at least), whereas\nyour personal web page probably won\'t be. Sad, but\ntrue; and even more true if we go fifty years into\nthe future.\n\n> IMO, as a poor person still trying to do good\n> science but often locked out by online "for\n> subscribers only" signs, just another, newer form of\n> that old and ugly standby, segregation.\n\nYou were building up a nice case for some\nsympathy there, but your last phrase blew it.\nYou might reconsider your words the next time\nyou fish for pity.\n\nMichael RIchmond\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>xanthian@well.com wrote:
> > Have you ever encounted such questions?
> > Sometimes, you need to cite your own work, but which maybe not got
> > published/accepted yet.
>
> > How to do with this?

If I were the referee for your paper, I'd insist that
you include the work in the current paper. How can
I evaluate your work if I can't see it? That's not how
science ought to work.

Another poster wrote:

> The responsible author will assure that a freely
> accessible copy of all publications remains
> available despite journal attempts to sequester data
> behind journal-funding barriers, either from sites
> like arxiv.org, or from a personal "publications"
> page that lets the interested learner download them.

I agree that this is a nice idea. In twenty years,
though, a paper journal article will still be legible
and available (to some people, at least), whereas
your personal web page probably won't be. Sad, but
true; and even more true if we go fifty years into
the future.

> IMO, as a poor person still trying to do good
> science but often locked out by online "for
> subscribers only" signs, just another, newer form of
> that old and ugly standby, segregation.

You were building up a nice case for some
sympathy there, but your last phrase blew it.
You might reconsider your words the next time
you fish for pity.

Michael RIchmond

Jason Kirk

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no,location=no, scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:18:03 +0000, Qingpei Hu wrote:\n\n> Have you ever encounted such questions?\n> Sometimes, you need to cite your own work, but which maybe not got\n> published/accepted yet.\n>\n> How to do with this?\n\nAs cmamo described note that it\'s been submitted in the citations,\nbut something that I\'ve heard is that the better journals do check up on\nthis at the time it goes to the type setters to see if the cite has been\nupdated to "accepted" or even "in publication".\n\n-jason\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:18:03 [itex]+0000,[/itex] Qingpei Hu wrote:

> Have you ever encounted such questions?
> Sometimes, you need to cite your own work, but which maybe not got
> published/accepted yet.
>
> How to do with this?

As cmamo described note that it's been submitted in the citations,
but something that I've heard is that the better journals do check up on
this at the time it goes to the type setters to see if the cite has been
updated to "accepted" or even "in publication".

-jason

Chris Bakayaro

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no,location=no, scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>> Neon et al., submitted to BLAH (2005)\n\nNo, never cite anything as "submitted to", always as plain "unpublished"\n\nChris\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>> Neon et al., submitted to BLAH (2005)

No, never cite anything as "submitted to", always as plain "unpublished"

Chris

ebunn@lfa221051.richmond.edu

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no,location=no, scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>In article <d1d6fe\\$f78\\$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu>,\nChris Bakayaro <drersti@yahoo.fr> wrote:\n\n>No, never cite anything as "submitted to", always as plain "unpublished"\n\nWhy? I\'ve certainly seen "submitted to" citations, and I appreciate\nthe extra information. Of course, I appreciate an arXiv citation\neven more.\n\nI may have missed it, but I don\'t recall anyone giving the original\nposter the most obvious advice. Look at articles in the journal\nyou\'re planning to submit to, and see what other people do.\nJournals all have guides for authors as well. Check those.\n\n-Ted\n\n--\n[E-mail me at name@domain.edu, as opposed to name@machine.domain.edu.]\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>In article <d1d6fe$f78$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu>,
Chris Bakayaro <drersti@yahoo.fr> wrote:

>No, never cite anything as "submitted to", always as plain "unpublished"

Why? I've certainly seen "submitted to" citations, and I appreciate
the extra information. Of course, I appreciate an arXiv citation
even more.

I may have missed it, but I don't recall anyone giving the original
poster the most obvious advice. Look at articles in the journal
you're planning to submit to, and see what other people do.
Journals all have guides for authors as well. Check those.

[tex]-Ted[/tex]

--
[E-mail me at name@domain.edu, as opposed to name@machine.domain.edu.]

Steve Willner

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no,location=no, scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>In article <d259d29.0503130902.5ea120c2@posting.google.com>,\nqingpei.hu@gma il.com (Qingpei Hu) writes:\n> Sometimes, you need to cite your own work, but which maybe not got\n> published/accepted yet.\n\nIn general this is possible, but the exact procedure depends on the\nrelationship between the two papers and the policy of the journal to\nwhich you are submitting the second paper. Explain the situation in\nthe cover letter for the second paper. The editor might ask for a\ncopy of the first paper if it is needed for refereeing the second\none. In ApJ and AJ, the reference list can contain citations such as\nHu, Q. 2005, ApJ, submitted. The citation can be updated at the\ncopy- editing stage. However, in some instances the editor may delay\naccepting the second paper until the first one is accepted.\n\nGood advice always, not just in this case, is to tell the editor at\nonce of any unusual circumstances.\n\n--\nSteve Willner Phone 617-495-7123 swillner@cfa.harvard.edu\nCambridge, MA 02138 USA\n(Please email your reply if you want to be sure I see it; include a\nvalid Reply-To address to receive an acknowledgement. Commercial\nemail may be sent to your ISP.)\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>In article <d259d29.0503130902.5ea120c2@posting.google.com>,
qingpei.hu@gmail.com (Qingpei Hu) writes:
> Sometimes, you need to cite your own work, but which maybe not got
> published/accepted yet.

In general this is possible, but the exact procedure depends on the
relationship between the two papers and the policy of the journal to
which you are submitting the second paper. Explain the situation in
the cover letter for the second paper. The editor might ask for a
copy of the first paper if it is needed for refereeing the second
one. In ApJ and AJ, the reference list can contain citations such as
Hu, Q. 2005, ApJ, submitted. The citation can be updated at the
copy- editing stage. However, in some instances the editor may delay
accepting the second paper until the first one is accepted.

Good advice always, not just in this case, is to tell the editor at
once of any unusual circumstances.

--
Steve Willner Phone [itex]617-495-7123[/itex] swillner@cfa.harvard.edu
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA
(Please email your reply if you want to be sure I see it; include a
valid Reply-To address to receive an acknowledgement. Commercial
email may be sent to your ISP.)

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