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image The Return of Parity: SU(2)_L x SU(2)_R x U(3) (was: Prediction of Lepton masses) Share It Thread Tools image
Old Mar15-05, 12:22 PM                  #1
whopkins@csd.uwm.edu

whopkins@csd.uwm.edu is
Posts: n/a
The Return of Parity: SU(2)_L x SU(2)_R x U(3) (was: Prediction of Lepton masses)

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','to olbar=no,location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes, status=no,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usene t ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\nwhopkins@csd.uwm.edu wrote:\n&gt; Jay R. Yablon wrote:\n&gt; &gt; I start with what at first seems an odd idea, that the weak\n&gt; &gt; interaction violates parity not only in the current / vector\n&gt; &gt; boson interactions, but in the mass term as well.\n&gt; In the presence of the parity-violating interactions, any\n&gt; non-zero scalar, bivector or pseudovector will spoil gauge\n&gt; invariance -- which includes chiral mass terms.\n&gt;\n&gt; This is not a trivial result.\n\nIf you think a pseudo-scalar term is *nonetheless* necessary to derive\nthe results you\'re trying to get at, then this automatically means\nyou\'re dealing with a larger interaction model which includes\nU(1)xSU(2)xSU(3), but is parity-symmetric.\n\nNon-zero mass terms can be present in the theory, if there is a\nright-handed analogue SU(2)_R of SU(2). Indeed, the corresponding I3_R\nterm would just be:\nHypercharge - (Baryon-Lepton)/2\nor more precisely, inserting the coupling constants:\nI3R/gR = (Y/g\') - (B-L)/2\nwhere gR would be the coupling for SU(2)_R.\n\nSymmetry breaking would then be generating a charge of the form:\nQ/e = I3/g + Y/g\' = I3/g + I3R/gR + (B-L)/2.\nThe existence of the invariant\nL^2/gs^2 + 6 ((B-L)/2)^2 = 3/2\n(L the SU(3) charge), then suggests the identification\nL9 = sqrt(3/2) gs (B-L)\nof a 9th component for a U(3) interaction containing SU(3). With this,\nthe mixing relation would read:\nQ/e = I3/g + I3R/gR + sqrt(6) L9/gs\nwhich implies\n(1/e)^2 = (1/g)^2 + (1/gR)^2 + 6 (1/gs)^2\nand gives you, approximately,\ngR^2 ~~ 1/57.\nThe 2nd mass eigenstate would be Z, with the relation\nZ = e I3/g\' - e Y/g\nwhich implies a 3rd eigenstate, ALMOST EXACTLY, of the form:\nYR/g\' = B - L - Y/g\'\nor\n(Y + YR)/g\' = B - L\nwith a corresponding non-trivial relation between the SU(3) and U(1)_Y\n(and SU(2)_R) couplings of the form:\ngs^2 ~~ 12 g\'^2 ~~ 6 gR^2.\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">&nbsp;&nbsp;View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>whopkins@csd.uwm.edu wrote:
> Jay R. Yablon wrote:
> > I start with what at first seems an odd idea, that the weak
> > interaction violates parity not only in the current / vector
> > boson interactions, but in the mass term as well.

> In the presence of the parity-violating interactions, any
> non-zero scalar, bivector or pseudovector will spoil gauge
> invariance -- which includes chiral mass terms.
>
> This is not a trivial result.


If you think a pseudo-scalar term is *nonetheless* necessary to derive
the results you're trying to get at, then this automatically means
you're dealing with a larger interaction model which includes
U(1)xSU(2)xSU(3), but is parity-symmetric.

Non-zero mass terms can be present in the theory, if there is a
right-handed analogue LaTeX Code: SU(2)_R of SU(2). Indeed, the corresponding LaTeX Code: I3_R
term would just be:
Hypercharge - (Baryon-Lepton)/2
or more precisely, inserting the coupling constants:
LaTeX Code: I3R/gR = (Y/gsingle-quote) - (B-L)/2
where gR would be the coupling for LaTeX Code: SU(2)_R .

Symmetry breaking would then be generating a charge of the form:
LaTeX Code: Q/e = I3/g + Y/gsingle-quote = I3/g + I3R/gR + (B-L)/2 .
The existence of the invariant
LaTeX Code: L^2/gs^2 + 6 ((B-L)/2)^2 = 3/2
(L the SU(3) charge), then suggests the identification
LaTeX Code: L9 = \\sqrt(3/2) gs (B-L)
of a 9th component for a U(3) interaction containing SU(3). With this,
the mixing relation would read:
LaTeX Code: Q/e = I3/g + I3R/gR + \\sqrt(6) L9/gs
which implies
LaTeX Code: (1/e)^2 = (1/g)^2 + (1/gR)^2 + 6 (1/gs)^2
and gives you, approximately,
LaTeX Code: gR^2 ~~ 1/57 .
The 2nd mass eigenstate would be Z, with the relation
LaTeX Code: Z = e I3/gsingle-quote - e Y/g
which implies a 3rd eigenstate, ALMOST EXACTLY, of the form:
LaTeX Code: YR/gsingle-quote = B - L - Y/gsingle-quote
or
LaTeX Code: (Y + YR)/gsingle-quote = B - L
with a corresponding non-trivial relation between the SU(3) and LaTeX Code: U(1)_Y
(and LaTeX Code: SU(2)_R) couplings of the form:
LaTeX Code: gs^2 ~~ 12 gsingle-quote^2 ~~ 6 gR^2.

 
Old Mar19-05, 02:04 AM                  #2
whopkins@csd.uwm.edu

whopkins@csd.uwm.edu is
Posts: n/a
Re: The Return of Parity: SU(2)_L x SU(2)_R x U(3) (was: Prediction of Lepton masses)

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','to olbar=no,location=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes, status=no,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usene t ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>whopkins@csd.uwm.edu wrote:\n&gt; Symmetry breaking would then be generating a charge of the form:\n&gt; Q/e = I3/g + Y/g\' = I3/g + I3R/gR + (B-L)/2.\n&gt; The existence of the invariant\n&gt; L^2/gs^2 + 6 ((B-L)/2)^2 = 3/2\n&gt; (L the SU(3) charge), then suggests the identification\n&gt; L9 = sqrt(3/2) gs (B-L)\n&gt; of a 9th component for a U(3) interaction containing SU(3). With\nthis,\n&gt; the mixing relation would read:\n&gt; Q/e = I3/g + I3R/gR + sqrt(6) L9/gs\n\nQ/e = I3/g + I3R/gR + L9/(sqrt(6) gs)\n\nCrash. Oops. :) Second time that\'s happened.\n\nThe whole point of view is not novel, at all (except for the additional\nparts about the existence of the 2 invariants and the extra motivation\nprovided at the classical level by Wong\'s equations), and it turns out\nthat a general situation is reviewed in Ernest Ma (2003):\n\nhep-ph/0308092\nNeutrino Mass and the SU(2)_R Breaking Scale\nErnest Ma\nUC Riverside\n\nI have absolutely no idea what is entailed by the mixing relations I\nposed:\nY/g\' = I3R/gR + L9/(sqrt(6) gs)\nQ/e = I3/g + Y/g\'\nZ/e = I3/g\' - Y/g\nYR/g\' = L9/gR - I3R/(sqrt(6) gs)\nwith mass eigenstates corresponding to Q, YR and Z), other than the\nidentities\n(1/g\')^2 = (1/gR)^2 + 1/6 (1/gs^2)\n(1/e)^2 = (1/g)^2 + (1/g\')^2.\n\nA symmetry breaking mechanism involving SU(2)_L or SU(2)_R Higgs-like\nfields will place severe constraints on the couplings since you want\nthe Higgs fields to be multiplets under either or both groups, which\nmeans their SU(2)_R or SU(2)_L charges are half-integer multiples\nrespectively of gR or g.\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">&nbsp;&nbsp;View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>whopkins@csd.uwm.edu wrote:
> Symmetry breaking would then be generating a charge of the form:
> LaTeX Code: Q/e = I3/g + Y/gsingle-quote = I3/g + I3R/gR + (B-L)/2 .
> The existence of the invariant
> LaTeX Code: L^2/gs^2 + 6 ((B-L)/2)^2 = 3/2
> (L the SU(3) charge), then suggests the identification
> LaTeX Code: L9 = \\sqrt(3/2) gs (B-L)
> of a 9th component for a U(3) interaction containing SU(3). With

this,
> the mixing relation would read:
> LaTeX Code: Q/e = I3/g + I3R/gR + \\sqrt(6) L9/gsQ/e = I3/g + I3R/gR + L9/(\\sqrt(6) gs)


Crash. Oops. :) Second time that's happened.

The whole point of view is not novel, at all (except for the additional
parts about the existence of the 2 invariants and the extra motivation
provided at the classical level by Wong's equations), and it turns out
that a general situation is reviewed in Ernest Ma (2003):

http://www.arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/0308092
Neutrino Mass and the LaTeX Code: SU(2)_R Breaking Scale
Ernest Ma
UC Riverside

I have absolutely no idea what is entailed by the mixing relations I
posed:
LaTeX Code: Y/gsingle-quote = I3R/gR + L9/(\\sqrt(6) gs)Q/e = I3/g + Y/gsingle-quoteZ/e = I3/gsingle-quote - Y/gYR/gsingle-quote = L9/gR - I3R/(\\sqrt(6) gs)
with mass eigenstates corresponding to Q, YR and Z), other than the
identities
LaTeX Code: (1/gsingle-quote)^2 = (1/gR)^2 + 1/6 (1/gs^2)(1/e)^2 = (1/g)^2 + (1/gsingle-quote)^2 .

A symmetry breaking mechanism involving LaTeX Code: SU(2)_L or LaTeX Code: SU(2)_R Higgs-like
fields will place severe constraints on the couplings since you want
the Higgs fields to be multiplets under either or both groups, which
means their LaTeX Code: SU(2)_R or LaTeX Code: SU(2)_L charges are half-integer multiples
respectively of gR or g.

 
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