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Groupthink in ordinary groups

by julian
Tags: groups, groupthink, ordinary
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julian
#1
Jun30-13, 07:10 AM
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It was suggested in Smolin's book "The trouble with physics" that stringy people may have succumb to a group condition called groupthink - this is where social factors lead people to defective decision making processes.

More generally, no offense to string people as it might be just a mild case, it is characterized by a deterioration in intelligence, reality testing and moral judgement. In a paper "So right itís wrong: Groupthink and the ubiquitous nature of polarized group decision-making." (http://ion.uwinnipeg.ca/~clark/teach...hink-Baron.pdf) it is argued that groupthink happens in more mundane ordinary groups. I think I may have come across such a group and was wondering if anybody knew of a sociology department that might be interested in studying an online group that I can only describe as stark raving bonkers :)
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phinds
#2
Jun30-13, 07:24 AM
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"Stark raving bonkers" and "online group" don't sound all that hard to find as a combination
julian
#3
Jun30-13, 08:02 AM
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It's just that what I might call the group leaders are actually maths postdocs and a PhD in theoretical physics who should know better but they think they are doing science. When I point out that they are talking nonsense and are wrong they compensate by telling me it is alright because they are bringing about an Einstein like revolution...I say O.K. are you going to publish it? I dont get an answer. Yes I think there is a online followers type nutters component who think these people are talking great stuff. I cant reason with them.

Anyway, Baron's paper is good read...if you want to look at it.

Leeboy
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Jul4-13, 03:07 PM
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Groupthink in ordinary groups

"Groupthink" happens everywhere... big or small groups... regardless of their professional or educational backgrounds. This is because groups naturally build a culture and the group's culture has developed preconceived notions as to what is fact or right/wrong. These preconceived notions are held stronger than what evidence suggests as true; duping the participants. Years ago, I read a Harvard Business School thesis that described how groupthink lead to the Watergate scandal... that it was OK to bug the confidential offices of political opponents.
Enigman
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Aug4-13, 12:33 AM
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Anyone read any Ayn Rand? I think she is the most vehement opposer of group think in any and all its forms.

Just wondering: can development of primitive religions be cited as a an consequence of group-think?
julian
#6
Sep13-13, 09:24 AM
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One of the delusions they have is that you can magically make any object half the length and width including oblongs. I dont know how - maybe by waving your novelty Harry Potter wand over it? When I point out to them that you cant actually do this they tell it is alright because they are Einsteins bringing a bout a revolution in geometry. I try explaining that the oblong has been around for thousands of years and I think someone might have noticed it going ping and halving in size if you angle it the right way. Is it just me who thinks they are stark raving lunatics who shouldn't be making a space on their shelf for a noble prize any time soon? One of the symptoms of groups gone mad is delusions of grandeur. when I point this out to them they take it as a complement...
julian
#7
Oct29-13, 08:24 AM
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Now they are taking random photos off the internet and making up stuff about them (stuff that is wrong - I've checked). In any case what they end up with is still the wrong thing anyway but they dont care - they are still not sending off any paper to a journal. Apparently none of this is mad. I wish I could get social psychologists interested in this.
phinds
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Oct29-13, 09:03 AM
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Quote Quote by julian View Post
Now they are taking random photos off the internet and making up stuff about them (stuff that is wrong - I've checked). In any case what they end up with is still the wrong thing anyway but they dont care - they are still not sending off any paper to a journal. Apparently none of this is mad. I wish I could get social psychologists interested in this.
The world is full of lunacy and lunatics. Why are you so hung up on this particular set ? Why can't you just ignore them and move on?
MathematicalPhysicist
#9
Oct29-13, 11:51 PM
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Quote Quote by julian View Post
It's just that what I might call the group leaders are actually maths postdocs and a PhD in theoretical physics who should know better but they think they are doing science. When I point out that they are talking nonsense and are wrong they compensate by telling me it is alright because they are bringing about an Einstein like revolution...I say O.K. are you going to publish it? I dont get an answer. Yes I think there is a online followers type nutters component who think these people are talking great stuff. I cant reason with them.

Anyway, Baron's paper is good read...if you want to look at it.
If someone wants to bring a revolution in physics then they are by definition lunatics.

Do they think that revolutions occur by saying we gonna make a revolution?

Einstein and others didn't think about revolutionizing physics they just had practical problems at hand with no solution.
Chronos
#10
Nov4-13, 12:08 AM
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Civilization depends on group think, its what makes us human. It's not always right, but, that is not the issue. We need group think for self affirmation and identity. That's why we have clubs and political affiliations.
julian
#11
Nov6-13, 03:26 AM
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Quote Quote by Chronos View Post
Civilization depends on group think, its what makes us human. It's not always right, but, that is not the issue. We need group think for self affirmation and identity. That's why we have clubs and political affiliations.
Hi Chronos

Just being part of a group gives a person self affirmation and identity, without there being groupthink. Have I misunderstood what you were getting at? Groupthink the psychological term refers to a particular way things can go wrong with a group, characterized by a deterioration in intelligence, reality testing and moral judgement. And it only happens under certain circumstances. Attempts should be made to eradicate it (and there are measures that can be put in place to counter it). An example of particular concern is in juries - and in fact groupthink has been observed in courtrooms around the world apparently.


Julian
julian
#12
Dec13-13, 05:13 PM
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I've tried to attach files has it worked?
Attached Thumbnails
curved.jpg   straight.jpg  
julian
#13
Dec13-13, 05:15 PM
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Here is a silly question...is the first photo yellow or white? Here is another silly question...first photo - is the bottom edge curved or a straight line? In the second photo the bottom edge is a straight line. Thanks.


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