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My wife just mixed bleach and 409...

by elegysix
Tags: bleach, mixed, wife
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elegysix
#1
Jul7-13, 12:50 AM
P: 316
That's right. Half a bottle of 409 (dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride) and the other half bleach. The bottle started getting hot, so I put it outside for now. The question is, what abomination is in that bottle? Am I dealing with chlorine gas? Thanks for any answers.
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jedishrfu
#2
Jul7-13, 12:55 AM
P: 2,979
Any chemical mix with bleach is a bad combination:

http://chemistry.about.com/od/toxicc...nd-Ammonia.htm

I had a friend do this and his wife, a nurse nearly killed him. I was really surprised as he was an engineer with a fairly rigorous background but I guess not in chemistry. This is one example of what you don't know can truly kill you.
elegysix
#3
Jul7-13, 01:06 AM
P: 316
thanks for the reply. My old lady was saying that it isn't bad because ammonium isn't ammonia. do you know if that small technicality makes a difference?

colliflour
#4
Jul7-13, 02:20 AM
P: 20
My wife just mixed bleach and 409...

Yes, I believe you're dealing with chlorine gas. The 409 likely lowered the pH of the bleach's buffer solution which will allow chlorine to come out of solution.
elegysix
#5
Jul7-13, 03:48 AM
P: 316
thanks!
maltman
#6
Jul8-13, 01:11 PM
P: 8
well, 409 spray cleaner is not really dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride, it is a mixture of ingredient
it contains mostly water, then a mixture of surfactants (nonionic and cationic) and a proprietary mixture of solvents, alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride @0.3% and Lauryldimethylamine oxide @1.0%, ph adjusters, fragrance and dye. The 0.3% is sufficient for surface disinfection.
Clorox doesn't recommend mixing it with anything,

Mixing anything with bleach is risky,
However for severe cleaning I do use a mixture of double strength "Bleach" and potassium hydroxide (potassium lye).
chemisttree
#7
Jul8-13, 10:22 PM
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Quote Quote by maltman View Post
well, 409 spray cleaner is not really dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride, it is a mixture of ingredient
it contains mostly water, then a mixture of surfactants (nonionic and cationic) and a proprietary mixture of solvents...
Proprietary mixture of solvents = butyl cellosolve (ethylene glycol monobutyl ether)

Edit: That's wrong. It looks like Chlorox reformulated 409 without EB and they are now using ethanolamine. That explains the reaction with bleach. It made the monochloramine of ethanolamine and perhaps a bit of the dichloramine. It is also possible the alcohol end was oxidized to the carboxylate. Likely non-volatile and would act as a pretty good disinfectant. If the OP complained of irritating gases, perhaps chlorine is the culprit.


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