Space propulsion lecture questions.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the potential for fusion as a means of space propulsion, particularly in light of a lecture by Dr. Terry Kammash. Participants explore the concept of achieving net gain from fusion in space and the implications of the Q factor in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding Dr. Kammash's assertion that fusion conditions vary between terrestrial and space environments, questioning the feasibility of achieving net gain from fusion in space.
  • Another participant clarifies that Q is the ratio of power output to power input, noting that a Q of 1.0 indicates breakeven.
  • A different participant asserts that net gain from fusion has not yet been achieved on Earth or in space, emphasizing that the conditions for fusion are independent of location.
  • Concerns are raised about the mass of fusion reactors in space, highlighting that every gram is critical for propulsion, and the need for high Q values for effective spacecraft propulsion.
  • Discussion includes the distinction between power and energy in the context of Q, suggesting that sustained scientific breakeven has not been achieved for prolonged periods.
  • There is mention of the preference for aneutronic reactions or those with minimal neutron production for space propulsion applications.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of achieving net gain from fusion in space, with some asserting it has not been accomplished while others question the implications of Dr. Kammash's statements. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the potential for fusion propulsion.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in current fusion technology, including the challenges of achieving sustained breakeven and the implications of mass constraints in space propulsion systems.

theCandyman
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Today I attended a lecture by guest speaker Dr. Terry Kammash. He was speaking about the possibilities of space propulsion, and fusion was mentioned. As fusion is one of the subjects that interestes me the most, I was eager to hear about it. However, he seemed to treat fusion as though we are capable of net gain and after the seminar I asked him why not use the energy used to create the conditions for fusion to power the rocket. I am a bit confused, but I think he said something along the lines of "terrestrial conditions varying from space" and mentioned a factor called Q. This Q is slightly greater than one for space reactors, but if fusion was to be considered a viable power source it has to be 20 or 30 times greater.

Can science (or has it already) achieve net gain from fusion in space? What is this Q referring to exactly?
 
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theCandyman said:
Can science (or has it already) achieve net gain from fusion in space? What is this Q referring to exactly?

Candyman,

No - we have not yet been able to get a net gain in fusion - neither on Earth
nor in space. The conditions required for fusion do not depend on location,
nor the strength of the gravitational field.

I'm not sure why Dr. Terry Kammash, Professor Emeritus of Nuclear
Engineering at the University of Michigan; would leave you with a false
impression.

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist
 
On Earth, one does not have to worry about the 'mass' of a fusion reactor, although cost is certainly an important issue. Both magnetic confinement and inertial confinement systems require massive structures to support the fusion process.

In space, every gram counts, because that is mass that has to be accelerated by the thrust.

IIRC, at the moment, we have not achieved a 'sustained' scientific breakeven, Q=1.0, or at least not for a prolonged period. One not only has to look at Q = (power out)/(power in), but also Q = (energy out)/(energy in), where energy is power integrated over time.

See - http://www.fusion-eur.org/fusion_cd/jet.htm

For spacecraft propulsion, one would like as high a Q as possible, and most likely one would want an aneutronic reaction based system, or at least a reaction with minimal neutron production.

Remember, fusion energy, like fission energy, is simply stored energy. The objective is to develop a system that realizes that energy in a 'useful' manner.
 

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