Confused with General Relativities explanation of Gravity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the explanation of gravity in the context of General Relativity, specifically how the warping of spacetime relates to gravitational effects. Participants explore theoretical aspects of gravity, including the geometry of spacetime and the behavior of objects within it.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how the warping of spacetime explains gravity, specifically questioning the relationship between geometry and gravitational effects.
  • Another participant argues that it is energy, including mass, that warps spacetime, leading to a different geometry that manifests as gravity.
  • A participant elaborates on the concept of geodesics, stating that objects move along these paths in spacetime, which appear curved in our three-dimensional perspective.
  • There is a discussion about how stationary masses affect each other's spacetime and the implications for gravitational effects, raising questions about intrinsic acceleration.
  • One participant provides an analogy using a curved surface to illustrate how geodesics behave in curved spacetime, suggesting that this can help visualize gravitational attraction.
  • Another participant notes the scale of spacetime, mentioning that the curvature is slight, which may affect how gravity is perceived in practical terms.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the explanation of gravity as related to the warping of spacetime. Multiple competing views and interpretations are presented, indicating ongoing debate and uncertainty.

Contextual Notes

Participants express various assumptions about the nature of spacetime and gravity, including the definitions of geodesics and the implications of curvature. The discussion highlights the complexity of visualizing these concepts and the limitations of current explanations.

mosfet_2005au
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I am rather confused with General Relativities explanation of Gravity!
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Gravity warps space-fabric (eg. rubber sheet model)
How does this explain gravity?
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Can anyone help here?
 
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Gravity doesn't warp space-time fabric. Energy(which includes mass) does. The spacetime near any massive object is bent, in the sense that it differs from the usual kind of geometry. This warping of geometry is what appears to us as gravity. In warped spacetime, the usual straight lines or "Geodesics" are not what they used to be. Objects moving in a straight line(in the 4-d spacetime) appear to be moving in a curved line to us in the 3 space dimentions.
 
(Ok, I meant to write “Gravity – warped space-fabric”)

So, I guess my question is
How does the geometry warping appear as gravity?
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Gravity = accelerated mass
So, how does the bending of space-time by mass appear as an intrinsic acceleration?
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For example:
Mass “m1” exists in space-time near another mass “m2”
Both masses are stationary relative to each other.
Mass “m1” bends space-time near mass “m2” and vice versa.

How does this explain the gravitational effects between the 2 masses “m1” and m2”?
 
As I have already said, a straight line in spacetime would not appear as a straight line in space to us. Objects always travel in straight lines in spacetime, but, this straight line in spacetime is not a straight line in space. Any deviation from a straight line in space indicates acceleration.
 
Particles follow "geodesics" in spacetime. On a curved 2D surface, a geodesic would be the shortest path between two points on the surface--for example, on a sphere the shortest path between points would be a section of the great circle that passes through both points. In curved spacetime, a geodesic is the worldline between two events with the greatest proper time (time as measured by a clock that follows that worldline). For example, in the "twin paradox" the twin who doesn't accelerate is the one who follows a geodesic, that's why he'll be older than his brother who did accelerate when they reunite. Planets in orbit are also following geodesics through the curved spacetime around the sun, although I don't know the details of how you'd show this.
 
Remember that one second of time is equivalent to 300,000 kms of space. In a space-time diagram drawn to scale the orbit of the Earth, spiralling through space-time, would be 1 A.U. across but I light year in 'pitch'. Therefore the amount of curvature is actually very slight.

Garth
 
Just some added notes. You can draw a space-time diagram by plotting position as a funciton of time. You usually do this on a flat sheet of paper.

What if you did this plot on a curved sheet of paper? Specifically, one curved like the surface of a sphere.

It's too hard to draw pictures on the internet, but if you manage to carry out this expeirment, you'll see that the worldlines of neighboring particles act a lot like they attracted each other - even though one is just drawing "straight" lines on a curved surface.

"Straight" lines in this context are the shortest paths that join two points while remianing entirely on the curved surface (it's not allowable to leave the surface). They are also called geodesics.

A picture or two might really help, but you'll need to go to a textbook to find one AFAIK - I haven't run across any on the internet, and ascii is certainly not up to the job.
 

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