Climate Thermostat Making Earth Habitable - Ditlevsen

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of a climatic thermostat that influences Earth's habitability, particularly through the balance of greenhouse warming and ice-albedo effects. Participants explore the implications of these mechanisms on Earth's climate states, including the historical context of Snowball Earth and the warm climate state. The conversation also touches on the broader implications for climate science and historical climate events.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the mean surface temperature on Earth is determined by the balance of incoming solar radiation and outgoing long-wave radiation, with greenhouse warming playing a significant role.
  • There is mention of two stable climate states: a cold state (Snowball Earth) and a warm state, with a suggestion that these states can flip due to positive feedback mechanisms.
  • One participant proposes that the greenhouse thermostat could have allowed life to evolve early in Earth's history, despite a fainter young Sun.
  • Another participant challenges the greenhouse ice house concept, suggesting that tectonic movements and continental shifts may have a more significant impact on climate than previously acknowledged.
  • There is a reference to a personal project involving the review of abstracts related to the Younger Dryas, indicating an exploration of historical climate changes and their implications.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the greenhouse ice house idea, with some supporting it and others disputing its validity. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the influence of tectonics versus greenhouse effects on climate states.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific historical climate events and mechanisms but do not reach consensus on the implications of these discussions for current climate science. The discussion includes assumptions about the effects of CO2 levels and tectonic activity that are not fully explored.

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http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/0505/0505245.pdf

Title: A climatic thermostat making Earth habitable
Authors: Peter D. Ditlevsen
Comments: 4 figures, Proceedings, NORDITA conf. Astrobiology 2004

The mean surface temperature on Earth and other planets with atmospheres is determined by the radiative balance between the non-reflected incoming solar radiation and the outgoing long-wave black-body radiation from the atmosphere. The surface temperature is higher than the black-body temperature due to the greenhouse warming. Balancing the ice-albedo cooling and the greenhouse warming gives rise to two stable climate states. A cold climate state with a completelyice-covered planet, called Snowball Earth, and a warm state similar to our present climate where greenhouse warming prevents the total glacition. The warm state has dominated Earth in most of its geological history despite a 30 % fainter young Sun. The warming could have been controlled by a greenhouse thermostat operating by temperature control of the weathering process depleting the atmosphere from $CO_2$. This temperature control has permitted life to evolve as early as the end of the heavy bombartment 4 billion years ago.
 
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Yes those two states. Greenhouse - Ice house with a lot of positive feedback forcing the climate either cool or warm, nothing in between, a flip flop.

It's also projected on the Pleistocene and it's the root of the global warming myth. Here is an excellent overview how that myth was born:

http://www.physicstoday.org/vol-56/iss-8/p30.html

or is this off thread?

Anyway, when I had discovered this, some suggestions came that I may well had discovered the flawed roots of that global warming discovery sequence. So I decided to start the mega project. I'm in the process of reviewing all abstracts under sciencemag.org sciencedirect.com and AGU.org that contain the string "Younger Dryas" for datable warm-cold indications, glacier advances and retreats and of course arid-humid changes. 200 abstracts down, some 300 to go.

Extremely interesting result.
 
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Hi andre.

I found the remark about a, 30% fainter sun quite remarkable.

You must love your work :smile:
 
Well with CO2 up 20-33 times the current values there would be some compensation for the fainter sun. But the greenhouse ice house idea s highly disputable. It's just what you want to see. Tectonics push the continents all over the planet in rom 200 million years AFAIK. Everytime when a continent passes a pole, it produces an ice sheet. One of the mass extinctions in the past may be attributed to the supercontinent Pangea, passing the south pole at the end of the Permian and created massive ice sheets and the remains of those can be found back at the equator. But that doesn't mean that there was a snow ball world. But that had nothing to with those flip flop ideas..

You must love your work

Work? It's a hobby.
 

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