Perpetum movil that will last as long as earth rotation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of creating a perpetual motion device using gyroscopes and the Earth's rotation. Participants explore theoretical mechanisms by which such devices could operate, including the interaction of gyroscopic motion and gravitational forces. The conversation includes both speculative ideas and references to existing energy generation methods.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a massive gyroscope could maintain its spin indefinitely if friction is minimized and its weight is sufficient, potentially aligning its rotation with the Earth's.
  • Others argue that any friction, no matter how small, would eventually stop the gyroscope from spinning, challenging the feasibility of the initial proposal.
  • A participant suggests using a "powerball" at 45º latitude, claiming that the Earth's rotation could provide the necessary momentum to sustain its motion.
  • One participant points out that energy derived from the Earth's rotation is already harnessed through tidal and wind energy, questioning the novelty of the proposed ideas.
  • Another participant discusses the concept of precession in gyroscopes, suggesting that it could be harnessed to produce usable energy, though this idea is met with skepticism.
  • A participant shares results from their own experiment comparing precessing and non-precessing gyroscopes, concluding that the work producing precession may originate from gravity rather than the gyroscope itself.
  • Some participants express doubt about the validity of claims made regarding experiments, suggesting a lack of empirical evidence or calculations to support them.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion features multiple competing views, with no consensus reached on the feasibility of the proposed perpetual motion concepts or the validity of the experimental claims made by participants.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference existing energy generation methods and the effects of friction and gravity on gyroscopic motion, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the mechanics of the proposed devices and their practical implementation.

capullosois
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Put a giantic gyroscope anywhere, in 24 hours it will have completed a revolution, cranck together the 24 hours rotation with the gyro rotation, if the gyro is heavy enough and the friction low enough it will spin as long as the Earth spins
Second option, put a giantic powerball at 45º latitude, once started the Earth rotation will feed it
 
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capullosois said:
... if the gyro is heavy enough and the friction low enough it will spin as long as the Earth spins


If the friction has ANY value above zero, your Gyro will stop spinning well before the Earth does!
(And it will have a friction value above zero!)
 
well hello there aviator.
 
inha said:
well hello there aviator.
I was just thinking the same thing...
 
Danger said:
I was just thinking the same thing...

... er, why? Have I missed something here?
 
He's back! Hurrah!
 
Adrian Baker said:
... er, why? Have I missed something here?
I'm giving the benefit of the doubt for now, but just check back to posts by aviator and icarolo to see why the suspicion arises.
 
Check the powerball you have to make a movement with it to accelerate it identical to that one that it would make in a 45º latitude by Earth's rotation.
It would only need a initial momentum and Earth would accelerate it.
The powerball has friction but it reaches 15000 rpm by twisting it in your hand as Earth would in a 45º latitude.
Just think in slower motion, heavier powerball, bigger momentum
 
I don't know what a powerball is, but what is your point? That you can get energy from the Earth's rotation? What's new about that? Earth's rotation (wrt the moon) causes tides, and hydroelectric generators can convert tides to electricity. Earth's rotation (wrt the sun) causes weather, and from this we already have hydroelectric river dams, windmill energy, etc. This seems like "free" energy, but tides and weather are gradually and continuously slowing the Earth's rotation.
 
  • #10
You are right Krab this energy could be in long term even worse than fossil fuels because it would slow down the earth.
But taking into account that precession is the vectorial product of the gyro torque together with the force of gravity we may conclude that force of gravity is transformed into an horizontal displacement, precession, of the gyro.
Wouldnt it be an interesting experiment to build a gyro that crancked together the precession with the gyro spin to see if as the vectorial product says the force of gravity would be converted into an horizontal and usable force?
 
  • #11
I don't see the point of running an experiment - as Krab said, we already have tidal power plants that demonstrate the conversion of rotational energy to electrical via tidal forces. It doesn't work the way you describe, but it does work.

Regarding slowing the Earth's rotation - no. The tides are already slowing Earth's rotation, by harnessing that we do not add a significant additional amount of friction.
 
  • #12
Danger said:
I'm giving the benefit of the doubt for now, but just check back to posts by aviator and icarolo to see why the suspicion arises.

I don't think there's any doubt at all that it's aviator. It's like the hydra - you chop off one head (aviator) and two heads spring up (icarolo) and (capullosois).
 
  • #13
juvenal said:
I don't think there's any doubt at all that it's aviator. It's like the hydra - you chop off one head (aviator) and two heads spring up (icarolo) and (capullosois).
What throws me off a bit is that the spelling gets a little better each time. Maybe he's just taking more time to proof them, and bought a dictionary. He sure is a persistent little bugger.
 
  • #14
I have made an experiment to measure if a precessing gyro holds its torque as long as a not precessing gyro.The results were their lasting the same.
To me this means that although precession is due to the gyro torque, the work that produces precession doesn't come from the gyro because if it was this way it would have lasted shorter precessing than no precessing.
This work that produces precession may come from gravity.
therefore if in a gyro you cranck together the spinning with the precession you may obtain a constant work from gravity.
I don't think this have been tried experimentally before so if someone is investigating this is a new idea that might be worth trying.
 
  • #15
Sorry, but that's complete and utter nonsense. You didn't take any actual measurements or do any calculations, did you?
 
  • #16
capullosois said:
I have made an experiment to measure if a precessing gyro holds its torque as long as a not precessing gyro.The results were their lasting the same.
To me this means that although precession is due to the gyro torque, the work that produces precession doesn't come from the gyro because if it was this way it would have lasted shorter precessing than no precessing.
This work that produces precession may come from gravity.
therefore if in a gyro you cranck together the spinning with the precession you may obtain a constant work from gravity.
I don't think this have been tried experimentally before so if someone is investigating this is a new idea that might be worth trying.
You're right. The precession is due to gravity. Here's a link that should give you more info on how gravitational torque causes a spinning wheel to precess
 

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