Reaction between iron(II) sulphate, sulphuric acid

  • Thread starter Thread starter Aly
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Acid Reaction
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the reactions involving iron(II) sulfate, sulfuric acid, potassium permanganate, nitric acid, and copper. Participants explore the ions present in the resulting salts from these reactions, as well as the underlying chemical principles and equations. The scope includes theoretical reasoning, chemical equations, and the behavior of metals in acid reactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the ions present in the salts formed from the reactions of iron(II) sulfate with sulfuric acid and potassium permanganate, and nitric acid with copper.
  • One participant suggests writing out the balanced equations to identify active and spectator ions.
  • Another participant provides a balanced equation for the reaction of copper with nitric acid, noting that it produces a salt, oxide, and water.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of reactions between metals and acids, with some participants asserting that these reactions typically yield hydrogen and salt, while others challenge this view based on specific metal behavior.
  • Some participants mention the Beketov-Volta series to explain the positioning of copper relative to hydrogen in terms of reactivity.
  • There are references to molecular orbital theory and its relevance to understanding metal behavior in reactions, with some participants questioning the applicability of concepts like LUMOs and HOMOs to metals.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the relationship between metallic bonding and molecular orbitals, while others clarify that band theory describes metallic bonding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of reactions involving metals and acids, particularly regarding the production of hydrogen gas and the role of molecular orbitals in metals. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on these topics.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the reactions and the definitions of terms used, particularly in relation to molecular orbitals and their relevance to metallic behavior.

Aly
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
If i have a reaction between iron(II) sulphate, sulphuric acid and potassium permanganate (KMnO4), what are the ions present in the salt??!

similarly, if i have a reaction between nitric acid and copper solid, what are the ions present in salt?

can nebody help me? thanks :)
 
Chemistry news on Phys.org
Write out the balanced equation and find your active and spectating ions.
 
The second one is really easy,textbook i might say.

[tex]Cu+HNO_{3}\rightarrow \mbox{salt}+\mbox{oxyde}+\mbox{water}[/tex]

Daniel.
 
dextercioby said:
The second one is really easy,textbook i might say.

[tex]Cu+HNO_{3}\rightarrow \mbox{salt}+\mbox{oxyde}+\mbox{water}[/tex]

Daniel.

Unfortunately the question is asking for ions not just the movement of substances. And also it is an ACID + METAL reaction and those reactions always give hydrogen + salt.

So you must consider whether the elements will lose electrons (as metals do) to become stable (a full outer shell of electrons) or whether they need to gain electrons (as non-metals do).

In the case of the former, the ions formed are of course +ve as the -ve charge of the atom (the electron) has been made smaller by its removal.

Conversly, for a non-metal the ve charge becomes bigger as more electrons (and therefore more -ve charge) is present.

It may be helpful, to write out the ionic equation and then figure out which ones don't change.

i.e.
[tex]Cu^+^2+2(H^+NO_{3}^-)\rightarrow\mbox{Cu^+^2 (NO_{3})_{2}^-}+H_{2}[/tex]

sorry - but for some reason the LaTeX image won't form or i fit does it is not the image i requested! - hopefully somebody can tell me where i have gone wrong, as the image shows up when i preview the post!

The equation I was trying to show however is this
(Cu^+2) + 2({HNO_{3}^-) goes to (Cu^+^2) (NO_{3})_{2}^-}+ H_{2}

(A [tex]+[/tex] or [tex]-[/tex] with no number after it indicates a +1 or -1 charge respectively.

As you know all compounds must be neutral in their charge. Therefore there has to be 2 nitrates to every 1 copper as copper has a +2 charge and nitrate has a -1 charge. Please also note the Nitrate is treated as an element - this is because it is what is known as a free radical.

The two is added before the nitric acid on the LHS (left hand side of the equation) to balance the number of hydrogen and nitrate molecules on each side - as in every chemical reaction nothing is lost (conservation of mass).

N.B. The hydrogen forms [tex]H_2[/tex] as it is a diatomic gas (it needs to atoms to be a stable compound with a H-H covalent bond)

As regards the first question, I am not sure where to start, if you post the whole equation here it would be helpful, or you may now see how to balance the equation and represent the ions.

Finally, in the equation shown it is an ionic equation as it shows the movement of ions.

Regards,

Ben
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yo,man,start reading before you try to correct someone,who,in this case,is right.

[tex]3Cu+8HNO_{3}\rightarrow 3Cu(NO_{3})_{2}+2NO\uparrow +4H_{2}O[/tex]

The reaction works only with concentrated acid.

Daniel.
 
Sorry man,

i was wrong even if it was dilute acid as it produces :

Cu(s) + 4HNO3(aq) ——> Cu(NO3)2(aq) + 2NO2(g) + 2H2O(l)

damn !why isn't it just a metal + acid ----> hydrogen + salt reaction?

Ben.
 
There's only one explanation.The Beketov-Volta series:where is Copper situated wrt the Hydrogen...?

Daniel.
 
Actually 3,if u consider the Kalium one.

Daniel.
 
  • #10
isn't it just a metal + acid ----> hydrogen + salt reaction?
it probably has to do with each metal's characteristic LUMO, lowest unoccupied molecular orbital. The following website has a brief explanation (regarding our case...you'll have to scroll to the very bottom, takes a while)

http://www.meta-synthesis.com/webbook/12_lab/lab.html
 
  • #11
as well as the highest occupied molecular orbital.
 
  • #14
Edit: brain fart
 
  • #15
Borek said:
Since when metals have molecular orbitals?

Borek

Not too sure but where do you get a bottle of copper atoms ?
 
  • #16
Since when metals have molecular orbitals?

Browse through the link.
 
  • #18
again, follow up on the link...
 
  • #21
I don't follow either. Nor do I see anywhere in the link that metals have lowest occupied molecular orbitals. Could you cut and paste ?

Besides, I think dexter answered the question about not producing H2 (gas) right in the beginning - copper (for both 1+ and 2+) has positive reduction potentials with respect to the std. hydrogen electrode.
 
Last edited:
  • #22
Borek said:
There are no covalent bonds described by the molecular orbitals theory in metallic crystals. It doesn't mean that metal crystal is just a bunch of atoms - they are connected by metallic bonding. But these are different things.


Borek

Ever hear of band theory ?
 
  • #24
Borek said:
I thought metallic bonding is described by band theory?


Borek
Yes, it is...pretty accurately too. And band theory says that the valence electrons in a metal occupy a virtual continuum of energy levels (~ 10^{23} levels within a few eV) that are almost entirely filled till you get very close to the Fermi energy.

In short, you do not have LUMOs in metals.
 
  • #25
Well, I'll have to do some reviewing myself, nevertheless the following website clearly indicates LUMO for some characteristic metals in their cationic states, the standard electrode potential perspective certainly answer's the OPs question...just thought that one could examine this from another angle. I was interested in nature of whether the different electron configuration of transition metals versus metals would contribute to the differences in reactions.

You need to scroll to the bottom of the page, it explains the different LUMOs of metals and transition metals in relevance to Lewis bases
 
  • #26
I don't follow either. Nor do I see anywhere in the link that metals have lowest occupied molecular orbitals. Could you cut and paste ?[/quoter]

lowest unoccupied molecular orbitals. From what I remember LUMO and HOMO are relevant to describing chemical reactions with respect to their electron density, including reactions of organic compounds with inorganic compounds, the org. compound is the LUMO/HOMO, the other is the vice versa. Technically may not be a molecular orbital, but the importance of it is to see how the reaction is taking place with respect to the orbitals and electron density (d,s...1s, 2s?).
 
  • #28
it'll still involve the "HOMO" or "LUMO" regarding the metal, or perhaps a slightly modified explanation in this case, the reactions are still orbital specific...the LUMO/HOMO concept is very useful in explaining any type of reactions in detail; the energy dynamics, configuration and position of each molecular in reactions and more.
 
  • #29
But GCT : metals do not have molecular orbitals. So there is no question of HOMOs or LUMOs in a metal.
 
  • #30
Gokul43201 said:
But GCT : metals do not have molecular orbitals. So there is no question of HOMOs or LUMOs in a metal.

I think my point has been lost here. What are the valence and conduction bands constructed from ?
 

Similar threads

Side reactions while dissolving silver
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
Reaction between hydrogen halide and sulfuric acid
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
How do I find conversions for a reaction with phosphoric acid?
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Reaction Rate experiment: Potassium Permanganate and Hydrogen Peroxide
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
Can Copper Patina be Applied to Lead-Free Solder in Stained Glass Work?
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
6K
Please explain the reaction between Potassium carbonate and Magnesium
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
Reaction energy for a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K
Why don't acids react with neutral salts in solution?
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
Easy way to make carbonic acid from other chemicals
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
Reaction of Metal salt with Sulphuric acid
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K