Solving Torsion Problems: Finding Torque & Rotation When Plastic

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving torsion problems related to shafts, specifically focusing on calculating torque and angular rotation when the material is fully plastic. Participants explore the implications of using a perfectly elasto-plastic material model and the challenges posed by limited information on material properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how to calculate torque and angular rotation for a shaft that is fully plastic, seeking a general understanding rather than specific answers.
  • Another suggests that the ultimate yield stress might be relevant as a failure criterion, questioning the meaning of "perfectly elasto-plastic material behaviour."
  • Concerns are raised about the lack of information regarding the ultimate tensile stress (UTS), with one participant describing the question as potentially problematic.
  • A participant introduces the idea of performing a limit load or plastic collapse analysis, noting that neglecting hardening may be necessary in this context.
  • Discussion includes a reference to the stress-strain curve associated with perfectly elastoplastic materials, with one participant indicating that the torque in the plastic case may be the same as in the elastic case.
  • Another participant mentions that the UTS is likely equivalent to the yield stress in this scenario, given the absence of additional information.
  • One participant concludes that for shafts beyond their proportional limit, the twisting moment can be calculated as (4/3)*Ty, where Ty is the maximum moment at the proportional limit, suggesting that the problem may be simpler than initially thought.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views regarding the relevance of UTS and yield stress, with some agreeing that they may be treated as equivalent in this context, while others question the adequacy of the information provided. The discussion remains unresolved on certain aspects, particularly regarding the implications of the material model and the specific calculations required.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of detailed information on the ultimate tensile stress and the assumptions made about material behavior, which may affect the calculations and interpretations of the problem.

morry
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Hi guys,

Just a quick question. I have been attempting some problems to do with torsion.

Most are pretty standard, you know, find the torque, angular rotation etc.

However I am stuck on this one. I have calculated the torque and rotation for a shaft that's at its proportional limit. But the next part asks me to find the same things, but this time the beam is fully plastic. How can I do this?? I have no idea.

Thanks guys.
 
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Morry, it is most efficient to post the exact question.
 
Ok here it is:

What torque and angular rotation are produced if the bar is deformed until it is fully plastic? Assume perfectly elasto-plastic material behaviour.

I am given the yield stress and elastic modulus. Dont worry about giving me specific answers, just a quick understanding is all I am after.

Cheers.
 
Last edited:
At first thought, they may be asking you to use the ultimate yield stress as your failure criteria in stead of the yield stress. I am not quite sure what "perfectly elasto-plastic material behaviour" really means.
 
The trouble is, they don't give us anymore information about the Uts. I think its a weird question. Its good to see I am not the only one who thinks this way.
 
Are you familiar with analyses using rigid or ideal plastic plasticity descriptions? The first thing coming to mind in a question such as this one is that they'd want you to do a limit load / plastic collapse analysis. Usage of solely yield strength in this case implies probably that hardening in all forms is neglected.
 
Perennial, I suspect this is much simpler still, and yes, strain hardening must be neglected.

The stress-strain curve, I believe, looks as shown in the attachment. This is what I recall is referred to as "perfectly elastoplastic".

That said, I believe there is insufficient data to answer the second question : the angular rotation at failure. Clearly, the torque will be the same as in the elastic case.
 

Attachments

  • elastoplast.JPG
    elastoplast.JPG
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yeah, that looks familiar ... if I was to answer the question would do a collapse analysis with the material model ... which can be done with "ease" for a simple geometry such as a shaft - however, can be that they're after something much simpler (or complex) ... depending on the "degree" of answer they're after ...
 
Thanks for the replies guys. So you think that the ultimate tensile stress will be the same as the yield stress?

The more I think about this question, the more I think it is stupid.

Its only for 2nd year solid mechanics so the answer shouldn't be too complicated. We didnt cover torsion in great detail, only the basics.

Thanks again.
 
  • #10
In this case the UTS is the same as YS ... since you don't have info on the former (or course noting the obvious about the relationships of yield properties in shear versus tension). In these sorts of plasticity simplifications you often see people use either YS, UTS or mean of them ... and since you only got one it simplifies.
 
  • #11
Well, i finally sorted it out. Turns out for shafts, that when they go beyond their proportional limit, the twisting moment turns out to be (4/3)*Ty, where Ty is the max moment at proportional limit.

So it was pretty simple. And of course, once you have this new torque, finding the angular rotation is easy.

Thanks for the help guys!
 

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