Implicit Differentiation: What Am I Doing Wrong?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the process of implicit differentiation, specifically focusing on the equation \(\tan(x - y) = \frac{y}{1 + x^2}\). Participants are seeking help in isolating \(\frac{dy}{dx}\) and addressing potential errors in their approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about their steps in implicit differentiation and seeks suggestions for isolating \(\frac{dy}{dx}\).
  • Another participant questions the existence of a problem, implying that the initial query may not be valid.
  • A participant suggests gathering terms with \(\frac{dy}{dx}\) and factoring, while recommending distribution of the right-hand side denominator.
  • One participant introduces the "Orion Cheat Theorem" as an alternative method to isolate \(\frac{dy}{dx}\), presenting a derived formula.
  • Another participant critiques the application of the theorem, arguing that treating \(\sec^2\) as a variable is incorrect and suggesting a more straightforward approach to the problem.
  • There is a disagreement regarding the formal notation used in the differentiation process, with some participants asserting that it does not affect the validity of the solution.
  • A later reply acknowledges a misreading of earlier comments, indicating that the solution may be correct despite previous criticisms.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the methods used, particularly regarding the application of the Orion Cheat Theorem and the treatment of functions versus variables. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on the correct approach to the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential misunderstandings in notation and the implications of treating certain functions as variables, which may affect the clarity of the discussion.

Orion1
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Implicit Differentiation...Help!


Find [tex]\frac{dy}{dx}[/tex] by Implicit Differentiation:
[tex]\tan(x - y) = \frac{y}{1 + x^2}[/tex]

[tex]\frac{d}{dx} (\tan(x - y)) = \frac{d}{dx} \left( \frac{y}{1 + x^2} \right)[/tex]
[tex]\sec^2 (x - y) \cdot \left( 1 - \frac{dy}{dx} \right) = \frac{(1 + x^2) \frac{dy}{dx} - y \frac{d}{dx} (1 + x^2)}{(1 + x^2)^2} = \frac{(1 + x^2) \frac{dy}{dx} - 2xy}{(1 + x^2)^2}[/tex]

[tex]\sec^2 (x - y) \cdot \left( 1 - \frac{dy}{dx} \right) = \frac{(1 + x^2) \frac{dy}{dx} - 2xy}{(1 + x^2)^2}[/tex]

What am I doing wrong?

Any suggestions?...
 
Last edited:
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nothing... what's the problem?
 
Identity Crisis...



How do I isolate [tex]\frac{dy}{dx}[/tex] from this identity?

[tex]\sec^2 (x - y) \cdot \left( 1 - \frac{dy}{dx} \right) = \frac{(1 + x^2) \frac{dy}{dx} - 2xy}{(1 + x^2)^2}[/tex]

Any suggestions?...
 
Get together the terms with dy/dx and then factor it. Are you having problem doing that? Distribute (1+x^2)^2 for each term on the right side.
 
Implicite differentiation doesn't exclude (the use of) the theorem of implicit functions.So go ahead and use it.

Daniel.
 
Orion Cheat Theorem...



Instead of using the Implicit Function Theorem or explicit expansion or distribution, I am wondering if the Orion Cheat Theorem works...?

Orion Cheat Theorem:

Identity:
[tex]\sec^2 (x - y) \cdot \left( 1 - \frac{dy}{dx} \right) = \frac{(1 + x^2) \frac{dy}{dx} - 2xy}{(1 + x^2)^2}[/tex]

Is replaced by:
[tex]a(1 - x) = \frac{bx - c}{d}[/tex]

Then isolated:
[tex]ad(1 - x) = bx - c[/tex]
[tex]ad - adx = bx - c[/tex]
[tex]-adx - bx = -ad - c[/tex]
[tex]x(-ad - b) = -ad - c[/tex]
[tex]x = \frac{-ad - c}{-ad - b} = \frac{ad + c}{ad + b}[/tex]
[tex]x = \frac{ad + c}{ad + b}[/tex]

Then reconverted:
[tex]\boxed{\frac{dy}{dx} = \frac{\sec^2 (x - y)(1 + x^2)^2 + 2xy}{\sec^2 (x - y)(1 + x^2)^2 + (1 + x^2)}}[/tex]

What do you think of the Orion Cheat Theorem? :biggrin:

What do you think of my solution? :rolleyes:
 
It was good, but, unfortunately its incorrect, because sec^2 isn't a variable, but a function. I like your way of thinking. The easiest way to do this problem is to multiply out the denominator of the RHS on both sides, then add the 2xy to both sides, and divide by what's in the big parentheses.
 
It doesn't matter,the notation is formal.That's all there is to it.

Daniel.
 
dextercioby said:
It doesn't matter,the notation is formal.That's all there is to it.

Daniel.
What are you referring to? If your saying what he did is fine, I'd have to disagree. What he did is fine for the most part, except he distributed the secant function as if it were a variable, which is clearly incorrect.

edit: I'm sorry, I misread your translations. It looks like the solution is correct.
 

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