How Are Conservation Laws Respected in the Dirac Field?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conservation laws in the context of the Dirac field and quantum field theory, particularly focusing on the implications of virtual photons and their role in the creation of real photons, electron-positron pairs, and energy conservation. The scope includes theoretical considerations and conceptual clarifications related to quantum field theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how conservation laws are maintained when virtual photons give rise to real photons, suggesting that the creation of real photons implies real energy and raises concerns about energy balance.
  • Another participant argues that virtual processes in vacuum do not lead to real photons unless considering phenomena like the Hawking effect, which involves real energy extraction from gravitational fields.
  • A different viewpoint introduces the concept of "polarization of a vacuum," where a photon can transform into a virtual electron-positron pair, which can then annihilate to produce a real photon, although this process is questioned for its validity.
  • One participant references H.E. Puthoff's work on the polarizable-vacuum representation of general relativity, suggesting that under certain conditions, vacuum polarization can act as an active field influenced by hidden variables.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about Puthoff's credibility and the validity of energy extraction from the vacuum, citing previous criticisms of similar proposals and recommending a focus on conventional quantum field theory instead.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the validity of energy extraction from the vacuum and the interpretation of virtual processes. There is no consensus on the mechanisms of photon creation and the implications for conservation laws.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on interpretations of quantum field theory, the validity of specific theoretical proposals, and the lack of resolution regarding the energy conservation implications of virtual processes.

McQueen
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I have a question about the Dirac field. If as quantum field theory states , every point in the Universe is filled with "virtual" photons , and if these "virtual" photons in turn give rise to electron-positron pairs , which being components of matter and anti-matter collide and annihilate each other giving rise in the process to a real photon , how are the conservation laws met ? The creation of a real photon implies real energy , which in turn implies its absorption by an electron which means more energy. How does everything balance out ?
 
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Virtual processes in vacuum never give rise to real photons, unless you're thinking of something like the Hawking effect, in which case the real photons extract real energy from the real gravitational field.
Ambitwistor
The process of creation of a real photon does take place in a process known as "polarization of a vacuum " . A photon is transformed into a virtual electron-positron pair , which is annihilated and transformed again into a photon. The members of this virtual pair (electron - positron ) during their lifetime may generate virtual photons and consequently new electron - positron pairs , which annihilate themselves to create a real photon , ann so on. Correct me if I'm wrong about this.
 
Originally posted by McQueen
Ambitwistor
The process of creation of a real photon does take place in a process known as "polarization of a vacuum " . A photon is transformed into a virtual electron-positron pair , which is annihilated and transformed again into a photon. The members of this virtual pair (electron - positron ) during their lifetime may generate virtual photons and consequently new electron - positron pairs , which annihilate themselves to create a real photon , ann so on. Correct me if I'm wrong about this.

Yes..do a search for H.E.Puthoff in Xarchive pre-prints.look for:

Polarizable-Vacuum (PV) representation of general relativity.

There are conditions where the PV acts as an active field in response to a hidden variable elswhere in the Universe. VP can appear from an un-observed location, as if they have just 'popped-in' so to speak.
 
Originally posted by Ambitwistor
I have not read Puthoff's work. I do know that he is widely regarded as a crank, and that I have not heard of any physicists other than his collaborators who think his results concerning energy extraction from the vacuum are credible. I also know that an earlier proposal to obtain gravity from vacuum effects was shown to be badly wrong by Carlip. None of this encourages me to spend time checking his results. You , of course, are welcome to do so, but perhaps your time would be better spent learning conventional quantum field theory.

Wisdom noted, I do not subscribe to the notion:energy extraction from the vacuum , and I am studying conventional QFT, if one can describe Quantum Fields as being conventional!
 

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