What causes the condensation trails behind airplanes?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the formation of condensation trails, commonly known as contrails, behind airplanes. Participants explore the origins of these trails, considering factors such as combustion products and the interaction of aircraft with surrounding air. The conversation touches on both theoretical and observational aspects of contrail formation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether contrails originate from combustion products (H2O released during combustion) or from condensed water vapor in the surrounding air due to pressure changes caused by the aircraft.
  • Another participant suggests that contrails are primarily hot water vapor emitted from exhaust gases that cool and condense, with a mix of combustion products and pre-existing water vapor in the air.
  • Some participants clarify the terminology, noting that contrails are also referred to as vapor trails and emphasize their visibility at high altitudes.
  • There is a mention of a sonic boom and a related phenomenon, the Prandtl-Glauert singularity, although it is clarified that the main focus of the discussion is not on sonic booms.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the primary sources of water vapor in contrails, with no consensus reached on the exact contributions of combustion products versus ambient water vapor. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of contrail formation.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the conditions under which contrails form, such as altitude and temperature, are not fully explored. The discussion also reflects a mix of technical understanding and informal exchanges among participants.

Clausius2
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Everybody has seen the weak of condensed water which is left behind an aircraft when it flies in air.

To say the truth I am not an specialist in Aeronautical stuff, so I am searching a brave who tells me from where this weak comes from:

-does it come from the products of combustion (H2O released in combustion reaction)?

-does it come from the condensed water vapor present in surrounding air, due to the pressure exerted by aircraft structure on flight in the air flow?

Thanks in advance.

This ignorance is killing me... :rolleyes:
 
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Ahoy there Clausius,

Do you mean vapour trails?
preview2.jpg


If so, it's just hot water vapour being emitted in the exhaust gases, and cooling. As you can see from the picture, they only emerge from the engines. You only get them at high altitude (troposphere, I think), so they're going to be either condensed, or actually frozen (which explains why they're visible). I suppose the actual source of the water is partly a combustion product, and partly water vapour held within the air just being heated up. You know more than me about gas turbines, but I suspect that in a typical commercial turbofan, the amount of water vapour being emitted due to combustion is much less than that which was in the air anyway, and has just been heated up.

The only other thing I can think you might mean is a sonic boom, like this: http://www.pinetreeline.org/misc/other/misc6f1.jpg

If so, you know much, much more about that than me, but I don't think that's what you meant anyway. The reason you might have had trouble Googling your question is because you meant to type "wake" not "weak". :smile:

Take care.
 
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Huckleberry said:
They are also called contrails.

I'll remember that Huck, thanks!

We have a game going on at the moment whenever we're sitting outside our house. We lie on our backs, and watch, urm, contrails forming, and make bets on where they're going from and to.

"Ooohh, I reckon that one's Oslo to New York"
"Nahh, more like Copenhagen to Boston..."

Hours of fun!
 
brewnog said:
The reason you might have had trouble Googling your question is because you meant to type "wake" not "weak". :smile:

Take care.


:blushing: :blushing: :blushing: Ufff... Sorry, you're right. I was confused about that word, I recall it begun by letter W, but I was not sure.

Now I am going to teach you some of spanish. In this kind of situations one usually says:

:blushing: Vaya metedura de pata!

BTW: thanks for your explanation.
 
Didn't mean to embarrass you, but if I wasn't speaking my own tongue I'd pretty much expect people to point out my mistakes. Also I thought it might help with your search. :smile:


Ok, I'll give it a go...!

Clausius said:
Vaya metedura de pata!

De nada! :smile:
 
brewnog said:
… The only other thing I can think you might mean is a sonic boom, like this:http://www.pinetreeline.org/misc/other/misc6f1.jpg …[/URL]
Take care.
Not that I understand it, but I believe the photo is demonstrating THE PRANDTL-GLAUERT SINGULARITY and need not be due to supersonic airflow.

http://www.galleryoffluidmechanics.com/conden/pg_sing.htm


...
 
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GENIERE said:
Not that I understand it, but I believe the photo is demonstrating THE PRANDTL-GLAUERT SINGULARITY and need not be due to supersonic airflow.

http://www.galleryoffluidmechanics.com/conden/pg_sing.htm


...

Yes, you're right. Anyway the purpose of this thread was not any sonic boom. Brewnog tried to expose it thinking I was referring to that. I am happy with his first explanation.
 

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