Proving g2 = u in Dihedral Group of Order 8

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the equation g² = u within the context of the dihedral group D8, which has an order of 8. Participants explore the properties of group elements, the implications of group operations, and the necessity of case-by-case analysis for different integer values of i.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about their approach to proving g² = u and questions whether they need to consider multiple cases for different values of i.
  • Another participant confirms that it is necessary to prove the statement for i = 0 to 3, explaining that y⁴ = u allows for reduction to these cases.
  • A participant questions why the integer i is limited to 1 to 4, suggesting that it could be any integer, including negative values.
  • Concerns are raised about the existence of inverses for certain elements in the group, with a reference to the property of groups that involves inverses.
  • Responses clarify that the modular nature of the group elements allows for simplification and that inverses can be computed using known properties of group operations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the necessity of proving the statement for specific cases of i, but there is some disagreement regarding the treatment of i as any integer versus limiting it to a specific range. The discussion on the existence of inverses also indicates a lack of consensus on how to approach that aspect.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the modular properties of group elements and the need for case analysis, but there are unresolved questions regarding the treatment of inverses and the implications of extending i beyond the specified range.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students studying group theory, particularly those interested in dihedral groups and the properties of group elements and operations.

wubie
Hello,

I am having trouble understanding groups in my group theory class. I am not confident on how to approach the following question:

Let D = D8 be dihedral of order 8 so

D = {u,y,y2,y3,x,xy,xy2,xy3}

where x2 = u, y4 = u, and yx = xy-1.

Let g = xyi for some integer i. Prove that g2 = u.


I know that y4 = u. So then,

g = xy4 = xu = x. Then

g2 = x2 = u

which is what I am trying to prove.


Now if i = 1 then,

g = xy. Then

g2 = xy xy = x yx y = x xy-1 y. Then

xx y-1y = x2 y-1y = u y-1y since

x2 = 2. Then


u y-1y = u u = u since

y-1y = u.


First question: Is the work I have completed so far correct?

Second question: Do I need to prove this in a case by case basis? That is, I would think that I would have to prove this for i = 1,2,3,4. Since I have already completed 1 and 4, I would have to do cases in which i = 2,3. Correct?

This may seem elementry, but like I stated above, my confidence in answering such questions is not great. And my understanding of the material is very weak.

Any comments, input, help is appreciated.

Thankyou.
 
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Yes, you do have to prove it for i = 1..4. (actually, you could do it for (i = 0..3).

The reason is because you can use y4 = u to reduce the general case to one of these 4 selected cases.

Your work looks correct, except for the typo that you wrote x2 = 2 instead of x2 = u.
 
Thanks Hurkyl. I still have some questions regarding this dihedral group.

Part of the question states:

Let g = xyi for some integer i.

Now, why would I just assume that i = 1 to 4? Why not -4 <= i <= 4 since i can be any integer?

Also isn't one of the properties of a group that:

For each a which is an element of G there exists a-1 which is an element of G such that

a o a-1 = a-1 o a = u

If so, where are the inverses of the elements y, y2, y3, xy, xyy2, xy3 in the group D8?
 
Why not -4 <= i <= 4 since i can be any integer?

The same reason you don't need to worry about i > 4.

Because you know y4 = u, we know that:

y-1 = y-1 * u = y-1 * y4 = y3

In general, if m = n mod 4, we can use induction to prove that ym = yn.


If so, where are the inverses of the elements y, y2, y3, xy, xyy2, xy3 in the group D8?

There are only 64 different ways to multiply 2 elements in D8. Exhaust! :smile:

More pragmatically, you can use the fact I mentioned above, coupled with the fact that (xy)-1 = y-1x-1 to compute inverses.
 
Thanks a lot Hurkyl. That was very helpful to me. I really appreciate it.

Cheers.
 

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