Can You Order Quadratic Sums with Natural Numbers and Rational Coefficients?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Eratosthenes
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of ordering sums of the form (a*x^2 + b*y^2 + c*z^2), where a, b, and c are positive rational constants and x, y, and z are natural numbers. Participants explore methods for selecting values of x, y, and z to generate these sums in increasing order, considering various configurations of the constants.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a specific example with constants a = 1, b = 1/4, c = 1/9, and lists the first several sums generated by varying x, y, and z.
  • Another participant suggests fixing two variables and incrementing the third to ensure the sum increases, but later acknowledges that x, y, and z must be positive integers, not allowing for zero values.
  • Several participants propose a method involving nested loops to compute the sums for given ranges of x, y, and z, followed by sorting the results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no clear consensus on a single method for generating the sums in increasing order, as participants propose different approaches and acknowledge the constraints of the problem.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of the variables and constants, specifically that a, b, and c are positive rational numbers, and x, y, and z are positive integers. The limitations of the proposed methods are not fully resolved, particularly regarding the ranges for x, y, and z.

Eratosthenes
Messages
73
Reaction score
0
Hi I have a question I will try to explain it as best as I possibly can.

Ok I have sum that look like this:

(a*x^2 + b*y^2 + c*z^2)

a, b, c are constants and are positive rational numbers
x, y, and z are natural numbers

I am trying to find a method to choose values for x, y, and z so I can find all the sums in increasing order. a, b, and c are fixed constants.

So for example if a = 1, b = 1/4, c = 1/9,

then I have: (1*x^2 + (1/4)*y^2 + (1/9)*z^2)


1st Sum: 1.36, with x = 1, y = 1, z = 1
2nd Sum: 1.694 with x = 1, y = 1, z = 2
3rd Sum: 2.11 with x = 1, y = 2, z = 1
4th Sum: 2.25 with x = 1, y = 1, z = 3
5th Sum: 2.44 with x = 1, y = 2, z = 2
6th Sum: 3 with x = 1, y = 2, z = 3
7th Sum: 3.028 with x = 1, y = 1, z = 4
8th Sum: 3.36 with x = 1, y = 3, z = 1
9th Sum: 3.472 with x = 1, y = 3, z = 2
10th Sum: 3.778 with x = 1, y = 2, z = 4


Of course I can different values for a, b, and c. Let's say a = 1/4, b = 2, c = 1/16 so then I'd have:

((1/4) * x^2 + 2*y^2 + (1/16)*c^2), and I'd have to find values for x, y, and z so that the sums would be in increasing order.


Is it possible? And if so any ideas, suggestions? I figure maybe someone here may be familiar with these types of problems. This isn't from a math book or from a math course so I'm not sure where to start. It came up in something else I was doing and I figured it would be fun to find a solution, I just don't want to run around in circles forever if it isn't possible heh. I don't really have a starting point. I tried to find a pattern but I didn't see one. I hope I didn't make any mistakes, it's really late. Thanks.


Edit: If I put this in the wrong section feel free to move it. I am not sure where this belongs so I just posted in general.
 
Last edited:
Mathematics news on Phys.org
hmm..
well since a,b and c are all non-negative and x,y,z are also non-negative
Therefore set y,z to zero and keep incrementing x. The sum will always be increasing.
(Infact fix any two of (x,y,z) to any non-negative value and keep on incrementing the third variable, as long as the coefficient of this third variable isn't zero).

-- AI
P.S -> Am i missing something?
 
TenaliRaman said:
hmm..
well since a,b and c are all non-negative and x,y,z are also non-negative
Therefore set y,z to zero and keep incrementing x. The sum will always be increasing.
(Infact fix any two of (x,y,z) to any non-negative value and keep on incrementing the third variable, as long as the coefficient of this third variable isn't zero).

-- AI
P.S -> Am i missing something?
Yes my fault terribly sorry. a, b, c are positive rational numbers, and x, y, z are positive integers, so yea nothing can be zero in my problem. I wasn't given this problem I created it and I am using it to solve another larger problem so sorry for the mistakes. Thank you for reading and trying to help.
 
output, then sort.

a=1 : b=1/4 : c=1/9

for z=1 to Zmax step 1
for y=1 to Ymax step 1
for x=1 to Xmax step 1
Sum = (a*x*x + b*y*y + c*z*z)
append table, Sum, x, y, z
next x
next x
next x

Sort table, Sum
 
a=1 : b=1/4 : c=1/9

for z=1 to Zmax step 1
for y=1 to Ymax step 1
for x=1 to Xmax step 1
Sum = (a*x*x + b*y*y + c*z*z)
append table, Sum, x, y, z
next x
next y
next z

Sort table, Sum
 

Similar threads

Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K