The Ultimate Loss of Civil Liberties: Innocent Man Shot Dead in UK

Daminc

Propaganda is the first weapon of politicians so it was probably a knee-jerk reaction

El Hombre Invisible

I'm inclined to agree. However, in a drastic role reversal twixt you and I, I would like to be privy to the complete facts before I reach a conclusion . However, since de Menezes' legal status in this country is irrelevant to the shooting (hence it seems foul that the home office made a statement about it at all), and we can probably assume the scope of the report will not extend to the behaviour of the government itself, we'll be solely dependant on the long-term memory of the British press. Not very likely, in other words.

Daminc

No role reversal needed :))

Against all odds let's walk hand-in-hand down the path of patience in the tireless search for more facts.

Let us contemplate the final day when our journey is complete and a revelation will be witnessed as a conclusion is born.

Let those who witness the Event go forth and spread the Truth of the conclusion for it was born from the ashes of Facts.


(Was that a bit OTT?)

The Smoking Man

I'm walking if you two start writing sonnets to each other.

arildno

What's so wrong if they start writing sonnets about the delights of role reversal?

El Hombre Invisible

Walking where? Down the path of patience? Beware of those who try to hold your hand, for they will lead you away to places from which people do not return.

I think he's trying to kill me.

Daminc

Methinks perhaps thou art wary my friend.

Fear not the path that leads towards the glorious gates of the palace of wisdom for it is written (Somewhere. I don't know where. Probably on the back of a beer mat) that time guides the curious to hidden pastures filled with knowledge (or cow pats, I can't remember).

El Hombre Invisible

Be that as it may, I'm still not holding hands with you. Not for all the cow pats in the world.

Astronuc

I am concerned when any government implements a "shoot-to-kill" policy without the necessary thought that addresses the consequences.

The individuals responsible for the actions leading to STK need proper training, and in fact, the individuals should be selected for the ability of rational thought (especially in a stressful situation), because if they act on 'belief' then innocent people will be killed.

Clearly the police, SO19 or whoever were sensitized by the previous bombings, but that is why the 'system' needs to be careful.

Did the 'system' not anticipate the circumstances whereby an innocent person might be killed, or do the individuals like Ian Blair simply not care?


What will happen in the future? What will happen at Christmas time when all the people are running around with packages/presents, any of which could contain a bomb?

How does one successfully distinguish a 'real bomber' from tens of thousands of innocent people?

Can a society accept the fact that innocent people will be killed inadvertently?


One of the problems appears to be that de Menzes looked Middle Eastern, and that was enough for the police (or whomever) to initiate actions which resulted in the death of an innocent man. Perhaps there is a latent racism invovled in this particularly situation, and that needs to be addressed by the 'system'.

We can't read others' minds, even retrospectively. We can only make sure the events do not reoccur.

alexandra

Ditto!

arildno

Seems the marksmen had a really good time at Stockwell, so they wouldn't stop shooting..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlo...556856,00.html

Daminc

If what that lady says is accurate they I can't even speculate what was in the mind of the shooter ???

arildno

Since a SINGLE head shot wound is most often immediately incapacitating (and probably fatal), the fact that he was shot a multiple number of times in his head should, by itself, raise grave doubts as to what actually went on within the shooter's heads.

Daminc

It's different if the shooter believed he was killing a suicide bomber or had a remote contolled detonator because he/she would be trying to destroy the brain to prevent reflex action therefore the amount of rounds would depend on whether the target is moving at all (keep firing until all movement is stopped)

El Hombre Invisible

I wonder why the IPCC omitted parts of her statement. I was about to say "hopefully that was a mistake", but why would I be hopeful that the people investigating this tragedy were prone to such mistakes? But nor do I hope they are being selective over the evidence they cite. A lose-lost scenario for the British public, I figure.

El Hombre Invisible

A bullet in the brain can just as easily cause involuntary movement.

Daminc

Maybe I'm wrong, I'm no doctor :)
What I do know is that military personel are trained that in those circumstances (potential suicide bomber or remote detonation) you're to keep firing until the body seizes all movement.