What is the White Hole Model of the Universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the white hole model of the universe, exploring its implications, potential structures, and compatibility with existing cosmological observations. Participants examine theoretical frameworks, the necessity of certain phenomena like the cosmic microwave background (CMB), and the implications of a universe centered around a white hole.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants highlight a model suggesting the universe is a finite bounded white hole, which does not require dark matter and fits certain observational data.
  • Others express skepticism about the model, questioning the rationale behind placing the observer at the center of the universe and the lack of a time evolution solution.
  • There is a discussion on whether a white hole would necessitate the existence of a CMB, with some arguing that it is unclear if a white hole would produce a CMB.
  • A participant notes that while white hole solutions exist, they are not isotropic and thus may not be practically relevant for cosmology.
  • Another viewpoint suggests that a white hole model could be indistinguishable from standard cosmological models if the dust sphere is larger than the observable universe, raising questions about observational limits.
  • One participant introduces a speculative idea that the universe could be a virtual entity, challenging traditional views of reality and suggesting a different framework for understanding cosmic structures.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express disagreement regarding the validity and implications of the white hole model, with multiple competing views remaining unresolved throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the lack of a clear explanation for the CMB within the proposed model, as well as unresolved questions about the universe's evolution over time. The discussion also highlights the dependence on specific definitions and assumptions regarding cosmological structures.

wolram
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http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0508367

Authors: John G. Hartnett
Comments: 7 pages, 6 figures

The distance modulus and supernova redshift data, determined by the high-z type Ia supernovae teams, is found to describe a model of the universe that places the Galaxy at the center in a spherically symmetric isotropic gravitational field. The result describes particles moving in both a central potential and an accelerating universe without the need for the inclusion of dark matter. However the sign for the only possible solution, consistent with the observed data, implies a finite bounded white hole. A comparison with the model that ignores the central potential indicates that this model is much more robust and the averaged matter density of the universe $\Omega_{m}$ derived from the analysis is highly significant. From two measured data sets it is determined that the matter density $\Omega_{m} \approx 0.0304$ and the vacuum energy contribution to gravity $\Omega_{\Lambda} \approx 0.9688$, with a total $\Omega_{\Lambda}+ \Omega_{m} \approx 1$ at the present epoch. From the model also an estimate of the effective radius of the universe $R_{*} = 0.67 c\tau$ is derived as well as the Hubble constant in the limit of zero gravity $h = 72.88 \pm 1.30$ km/s/Mpc.
 
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Aside from the absurdity of putting us at the center of the universe, this paper hasn't even found a solution for their universe's evolution with time. Perhaps I'm missing it, but I also don't see an explanation for the CMB within their model.
 
SpaceTiger said:
Aside from the absurdity of putting us at the center of the universe, this paper hasn't even found a solution for their universe's evolution with time. Perhaps I'm missing it, but I also don't see an explanation for the CMB within their model.
I do not defend the paper in any way, but would a white hole require a CMB?
 
This is sort of a sidenote:

"White hole" solutions for cosmology exist, but are of little practical interest because they are not isotropic. You can construct a model that has a standard FRW cosmology "inside" some radius, glued to an external Schwarzschild solution. See for instance

Is the universe a black hole?

A white hole model which fitted cosmological observation would have to be the time reversal of a star collapsing to form a black hole. To a good approximation we could ignore pressure and treat it like a spherical cloud of dust with no internal forces other than gravity. Stellar collapse has been intensively studied since the seminal work of Snyder and Oppenheimer in 1939 and this simple case is well understood. It is possible to construct an exact model of stellar collapse in the absence of pressure by gluing together any FRW solution inside the spherical star and a Schwarzschild solution outside. Space-time within the star remains homogeneous and isotropic during the collapse.

It follows that the time reversal of this model for a collapsing sphere of dust is indistinguishable from the FRW models if the dust sphere is larger than the observable universe. In other words, we cannot rule out the possibility that the universe is a very large white hole. Only by waiting many billions of years until the edge of the sphere comes into view could we know.
 
wolram said:
I do not defend the paper in any way, but would a white hole require a CMB?

The CMB is observed. The question is whether a white hole will produce a CMB, no whether it requires it.
 
HINT: black holes are by definition VERY large natural quantum computers operating at the Bekenstein Bound- and they perform more Flops than the observable universe has since the big bang

the universe can be a white hole yet isotropic and centerless/boundless yet flat and finite if it's metric is 'VIRTUAL'-

the universe is not a play with objects dancing in a Cartesian Theatre background- Reality emerges from relationships and systems of interactions [ie software]
 
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I doubt the patient will survive the dosage required for this dark matter cure.
 

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