Under God

selfAdjoint

Where do you live? Have you contacted the ACLU?

TRCSF

Catholicism?

Pengwuino, it would be a lot easier to take you seriously if you understood the basics of American history.

pattylou

I haven't. I thought about having a word with the principal, but she's one scary *****. Flyers for Vacation Bible School came home in the backpacks last spring, as well.

I'm in Ventura County. What would ACLU do?

kyleb

The Church of England was Catholic at the time, not Roman Catholic, but Catholic all the same.

Entropy

I don't believe the words should be in the plegde, let alone have any plegde whatsoever. I believe the question is: is it worth all the trouble to remove it? Aren't there more pressing matters we could invest our resources in?

SOS2008

Religious freedom is why many people came to America. Freedom to practice the religion of their choice, but also freedom from religion. It was not until 1942 that Congress wrote the Pledge into law, with the words "under God" added later in 1954. So obviously the founding fathers did not come up with this.
Or Americans United for Separation of Church and State (go to the web site and you can contact them) These groups help with litigation of these cases. The Bible School is not compulsory, however, it should not be conducted on school property (with tax support). The promotional flyer is something parents (I'm sure you're not the only one) can complain to the school board about.

This same question was asked during the 2004 election and focus on banning gay marriage. It has become such a "shove it down your throat" environment that things like "God Bless America" bumper stickers have become offensive to me.

JamesU

I agree with this, while I believe in god, religeon should not be forced upon children. Definitely talk to the school board. maybe the superintendant, it could be something across the district!

I got a flyer in the mail the other day (was sent to all students at our school) to attend a catholic high school next year

Skyhunter

Saying God Bless America is a violation of the commandment "Do not take the Lords name in Vain". Asking god to bless this nation over others is an act of vanity while invoking the lords name!

Skyhunter

What does this have to do with Catholicism?

Is that not clear?

How can anyone argue that the first amendment does not establish the US government as secular?

TheStatutoryApe

Why exactly do you have a problem with them being taught and asked to sing the song? I have a friend who is incredibly non-christian but he has on multiple occasions joined christian choirs to be able to sing and he didn't care what the content of the songs were. Can you not just ask that your children be excused from this particular event? And is it really that important to you or the children?
I'm personaly not religious, patriotic, or ethnocentric yet I love Irish music which contains quite abit of all of the above. I personally can't see why the issue is so troubling.

pattylou

I find it offensive because of the entire school environment.

Wealthy white fundamentalist christians driving SUV's and slapping "support the troops" ribbons (made in China) on the back; having prayer breakfasts before school and having class assignments writing letters to the president telling him five nice things about himself; conversations with parents saying they are angry that science will teach their children they evolved from monkeys (wrong), the spelling list this week comprised of exclusively war-like words (comrades, opponents, combat, endure, etc)....

This sort of environment poises several buttons in my brain, those buttons that have always held a slightly different view from this gestalt, ready to go off but still in check .....

And then hearing my sweet, caring, loving five year old singing a song that clearly asks God to favor the United States of America.

The idea of asking God for favor over someone else is bad enough, but in the context of everything else going on, and having this come from the public school, pushes my buttons.

SA, If I were without kids, and if I were still single, these 'buttons' wouldn't be installed. If anything I'd think "Quirky parents, they should get a life." Maybe I should try to adopt that attitude, or .... maybe it is OK for me to be upset that an institution which is supposed to maintain the separation of church and state is imposing blind nationalism values on my kids.

I don't really think they (my kids) will absorb it, I just find it incredibly insensitive of the school. It's wrong. It's just wrong.

I play some religious cd's, some of it's beautiful. I'm glad your friend sings in a group he enjoys. The distinction is what we choose for ourselves and our families, and what we wouldn't - and I would never choose to teach my kids that God's favor (at someone else's expense) can be garnered through prayer.

mattmns

Personally I think the whole pledge is bogus and a waste of time. Recite the pledge on your own time, school is for learning!

TheStatutoryApe

I completely understand. I'm not unsympathetic because I'm single without children. My previously mentioned friend is a father (and divorced) and I discuss parenting and the like with him on occasion and assist him in activities with his son.
I was missing the context. It would seem to me that the serious problem doesn't come from them singing this particular song but that it is more or less the straw that broke the camels back. It would seem that you have plenty of legitimate concerns and most of them seem very much more important than this song. I hope that you concentrate on those things more so than this song, and I'm sure that you probably will.

Good luck with your children's schooling situation Patty. I sincerely hope it will get better.

Lisa!

Forcing people to say things that they don't believe it, is funny. Humans are free and have the right to have their own belief and religions. For example if you foce all people to say "I believe in God", it causes even spritual people feel bad about God. If you want to make people not to believe in/do something, force them to do!

McGyver

This ruling only adds support to the Republican party's complaint of judicial activism, and furthers the conservatives' argument against such rulings. This ruling lacks common sense, as well as prior precident. It is cutting hairs, and when Roberts and O'conners replacement is confirmed, there will be a backlash. Stupid. Stupid.

Math Is Hard

I think Robin Williams had the best idea: change it to "one nation, under Canada" or "one nation, over Mexico". I guess Alaska and Hawaii present a problem with that, but I still thought it was funny!

kyleb

Free exercise of religion not good enough for you?