Should the electoral college be abolished?

russ_watters

On a suggestion by pattylou (really, something that has come up a lot)....

Do you think the Electoral College should be abolished and the President decided strictly on the basis of total national popular vote.

The "hybrid" answer would be some form of popular vote that is not a strict plurality. For example, a majority could be required for a win, some sort of ranking and instant run-off system, etc.

loseyourname

I'm not sure what kind of system I would institute (plurality or majority and what have you), but the answer is definitely "yes, abolish the electoral college."

pattylou

I voted no.

My problem with Bush's actions are his smarminess.

The electoral college is in place for good reason. It may need to be revisited, as demographics and society changes. I like that some states split their electroal votes.

But the bottom line is: If I won the electoral vote and lost the popular vote, you would know that that gave me pause. I would sincerely work it into my speeches, that I recognized I was not the choice of the majority of people in the country.

If, on the other hand, I bulldozed ahead and pretended to be on some God - driven mission after such a result, and implied that my counterpart in the other party was a real *loser* for contesting the numbers, .....

I woud not be surprised if my actions sent up HUGE red flags for people across the nation.

I would NEVER talk about *political capitol* and a mandate from the people.

The guy is a serious moron. He is also a liar and he is trigger happy, and he thinks he can spin anything or even worse he thinks it doesn't matter what the people in the country think.

This is our president. God.

Pengwuino

Patty... can you even begin to realize the ramifications of someone saying that they knew they weren't the popular choice? And you're calling someone names?

The SECOND a politician says he is illegitimate is the second he decides to resign because from that moment forward, you're a lame duck, you are useless, you will not get anything passed and you will have a political bullseye on your head until the day you're presidency is over.

loseyourname

Here is the reason given in the Federalist papers:

Basically, he is saying that the general public is too stupid and gullible to be trusted to directly elect a president. What exactly is the good reason that you think we should have an electoral college?

pattylou

I think that some areas have had difficulty getting to polls historically.

If you have an isolated geographical region and a non-isolated geographical region, the former will have a harder time getting to whatever polling set up they put in place.

You need to adjust for that, and it is reasons like this that the electoral college has merit.

pattylou

I'm not convinced. He lost *me* when he went the route *you're* suggesting. I doubt I'm the only one. I expect comments like Kerry's "Those crooks" comment that was picked up on microphones at some press thing - i expect such comments stem in part from Bush's utter disregard for anyone but himself.

SOS2008

Ditto -- there is a very good reason for the Electoral College, which is to be a check and balance against special interests and/or an uniformed/misguided (stupid) population. Since both of these problems have been increasing, I say we need the check and balance of the Electoral College all the more. It just needs to be fixed, such as highlighted in pattylou's post, and should be fixed (along with the other check and balance known as the Supreme Court) to prevent further elections of morons like Bush.

loseyourname

How does the college adjust for that? This would actually have a lesser impact if there were no college. Consider situation X:

Candidate Y and candidate Z are neck to neck in the election and it all comes down to state A. State A includes several geographically isolated regions where candidate Y would have received most of the votes. However, due to this isolation, candidate Z wins the state, gets all of its electoral votes, and wins the national election. However, candidate Y wins the popular vote. Without a college, candidate Y would not have been so heavily penalized for having so many of his supporters live in geographically isolated regions of state A.

Pengwuino

Or liberal stupidity fueled by DNC lies and deceits. You've been around... haven't you EVER noticed that politicians will NOT, under any circumstance, say something negative about themselves unless they are facing much worse problems if they dont (ie, Clinton lieing to the American people about his criminal act of lieing to a Grand Jury)???

Nothing will convince you, you can't convince an ideolog.

Moonbear

I voted for the hybrid option. I like the idea of an instant run-off until a majority vote is obtained, so that I could rank my choices. That way, if my first choice didn't make the cut, I still would have a say on second or third choice. This might give a good third party candidate a chance. I can't stand the two-party system because both parties are pretty awful. I'd rather get a good candidate who had no party affiliation.

Smurf

there's no "other"

pattylou

I'm sorry. I don't see what you're saying. I realize I must sound dense.

It seems obvious to me that people should be good, honest, and trustworthy.

It seems right to me that our leaders should exemplify these qualities to an even *greater* extent than the populace, for the sole reason that they are ... our *leaders.*

I don't know what you mean by "idealog" --- You seem to be directing that at me. I'm a registered democrat but I am sure that you are aware that I routinely point out the hypocrisy within the democratic party and candidates. I am sure you realize that my disgust for Bush has no bearing one way or another on my opinion of other candidates. I am sure you would not try to stereotype people unfairly.

I am an idealist, and I think the best truths are very simple. Be good to one another, be honest, try your best, etc.

Smurf

ah yes, "try your best".

Never could get much of a grasp on that one.

SOS2008

pattylou--you're fine, it's Pengwuino who is the ideologue.

pattylou

Well, it's one of the trickier ones, but I finally figured it out about ten years ago after decades of getting hung up on always feeling like I could have done better....

- the emphasis is on "try" not on "best."

Smurf

I know.... that's where the difficulty is.